Okay, Ed, I see what you are saying here.

Please let me re-phrase that here:

"Indeed, ONLY God Almighty Himself and that particular person themselves know the true heart condition of that particular person themselves.

No other mortal human being knows *for sure* the true "Christian-salvation-heart" condition of any other mortal human being."

Is that better, Ed?


Chess Fan

I will have two questions:

1)What passage(s) are you refering to?
and after you quote them
2)what do they mean?

What does it mean to "believe in Jesus?" Or have "faith in Jesus?" I have my own ideas that I came to after considering this for years/decades and with different life experiences but I admit I am always interested in other ideas as well. I think I have a sufficient idea (see above) but I am always curious to learn more.

I think we can agree that it is not sufficient just to believe he existed right? Do you think you have to do what he said we have to do?

Not really. And please note that "Himself" and "person" are singular nouns, while "themselves" is a plural pronoun. Your grammar is the disagreement of pronoun and noun.

Ed Yetman, III
YetmanBrothers.com

@niceforkinmove:

Well, in my opinion, the clearest and the easiest to understand teaching on this is contained in a passage in the Gospel of John, Chapter 3, Verses 1 through 21.

A member of the Pharisees named Nicodemus came to Jesus and asked Him some questions.

Anyway, in His first answer to one of Nicodemus' questions to Him, Jesus clearly says to Nicodemus in Verse 3, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the Kingdom of God", (Go to Heaven), unless he is born again."

Indeed, Verse 3 is the key verse in this passage where Jesus clearly comes right out and says that a person needs to be born-again to go to Heaven when they die.

However, niceforkinmove, please read that entire passage from the Gospel of John, Chapter 3, Verses 1 through 21, and just let Jesus Christ's *very own plain and easy-to-understand words* explain to you why the only way to true Christian salvation is through Jesus Christ alone.

In that passage, Jesus Himself explains it much simpler and much more plainly than I could in the few words that it takes Jesus to explain all of this to you.

And of course, niceforkinmove, I am taking it here that you mean "what does it take to have saving faith and belief in Jesus."

First of all, yes, you are right in the fact that it is NOT enough to simply intellectually believe that Jesus Christ existed.

Indeed, the Bible says that the demons believe in Jesus and tremble; but, of course, those demons are not saved, even though they certainly DO believe that Jesus exists!

Here is a short Bible passage that does an excellent job in saying just what that true, saving faith and belief in Jesus Christ is:

A brief explanation of the passage that I quoted here is this:

In verse 9, the confession with the mouth is a person's acknowledgement that Jesus Christ is God Almighty incarnate in the flesh.

Also, verse 9 also says that you must sincerely believe in your heart that God the Father raised Jesus Christ from the dead.

And then, verse 10 is simply a "review" of sorts of verse 9 in the "true order of things', in that, you sincerely believe in your heart and are justified before Almighty God; (i.e, you believe unto saved righteousness before Almighty God), and, with your mouth, you confess unto salvation.

To briefly sum it up here, true salvation comes through a person acknowledging to God that Jesus Christ IS God, and, also, by believing in Jesus, in that, it is believing that Jesus died and rose again from the dead to pay your sin debt IN FULL!

I hope this explanation helps.


Chess Fan

John who?
Traditional advocates follow Eusebius in insisting that the apostolic connection of Papius was with John the Evangelist, and that the author of the Gospel of John was the Apostle. Polycarp does not quote from the Gospel of John in his surviving letter, which may be an indication that whichever John he knew was not the author of that gospel, or that the gospel was not finished during Polycarp's discipleship with John.

Nope, first trimester. 6-10 weeks post implantation seems to be the critical stage (if memory serves).

You are mistaken in your characterization of the pro-life folks as focusing on the time immediately prior to birth: their claim is that life begins at the moment of conception.

Another example of your claim to know what is in someone else's heart. You told Ed that you cannot know if anyone other than yourself has been saved...but you are arrogant enough to declare that I am neither saved nor a true christian.

So which is it CF? Are you going to continue to make arrogant claims about myself and others or are you going to listen to yourself when you claim that you cannot know if those claims are true????

Yes, the vast majority of pro-life people, (including myself), DO believe that human life begins at the moment of conception.


Chess Fan

Spock, spock, hey, relax man!

I can almost feel the heat of your angry breathing right through my monitor screen here.

Anyway, spock, PLEASE get it right before you go on and on raging against me here.

I have NEVER said that I KNOW for sure that you are not truly saved.

However, spock, *by the authority of the Word of God, (the Bible)*, I DO say to you that IF you have never received the Lord Jesus Christ as your very own personal Lord and Savior, then, Spock, you are neither saved, nor are you a true Christian -- *By the standards that are set by God Almighty Himself in the Bible.*

Spock, I certainly do NOT know whether or not that you are truly born-again and truly saved.

Only YOU and Almighty God Himself know that for sure.

Spock, spock, so, my telling you and everyone else here on this Message Board what the Bible has to say about what TRUE salvation really is are "arrogant claims"??!!

Well, then, *according to you*, spock, I guess that Almighty God Himself is "arrogant", right?

No, spock, in my opinion, you need to get back into the Bible, go to the Gospel of John, *and READ what Almighty God has to say about just WHAT that true Christian salvation really is*, rather than your continuing to do your totally fruitless "ranting and raving" against me here in this topic thread.


Chess Fan

CF:

You have frequently said that you can tell that I am not "born again" or "saved." Now you try to say you are just quoting scripture at me.

When you say:

What could you possibly mean other than to tell me that I am not saved? What other reason could there be for telling me I need to go back and read the bible?? The only way that your instructions to me make any sense at all is if you know that I am not saved.