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#128383 - 07/14/08 01:49 PM
Re: Politics 2
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Ninja
Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
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Originally posted by knight_tour: I understood when W Bush got into office that he would most likely push us into a war (preferably with Iraq), so I can and do blame him for what has followed.
Do you blame him for getting us into the Afghan war also, or only the Iraq one? Also, even without the war his policies still would have been bigger government and more spending. You could see that coming even before 9/11.
You mean military spending specifically, or spending in general?
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"I brought the Atom Bomb. I think it's a good time to use it." -- Dr. Richard Gordon, King Dinosaur
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#128384 - 07/14/08 02:01 PM
Re: Politics 2
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Member
Registered: 02/15/05
Loc: Reykjavik, Iceland
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Originally posted by Petrosianic: Originally posted by knight_tour: I understood when W Bush got into office that he would most likely push us into a war (preferably with Iraq), so I can and do blame him for what has followed.
Do you blame him for getting us into the Afghan war also, or only the Iraq one?
Also, even without the war his policies still would have been bigger government and more spending. You could see that coming even before 9/11.
You mean military spending specifically, or spending in general? The war in Afghanistan wasn't one they wanted, so naturally it the one real consequence of 9/11. I mean spending in general, though of course military spending is a huge part of that.
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"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain
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#128385 - 07/14/08 05:36 PM
Re: Politics 2
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Ninja
Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
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Originally posted by knight_tour: The war in Afghanistan wasn't one they wanted, so naturally it the one real consequence of 9/11.
You mean you don't blame him for that one, as it was a natural consequence of 911? One certainly wouldn't have seen it coming on Election Day 2000. I mean spending in general, though of course military spending is a huge part of that.
What kind of spending other than military spending do you think Republicans are big on? General all-purpose pork (If you're saying that, I'd probably agree with you, though both parties seem so bad). Or did you have something more specific in mind?
_________________________
"I brought the Atom Bomb. I think it's a good time to use it." -- Dr. Richard Gordon, King Dinosaur
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#128386 - 07/14/08 07:09 PM
Re: Politics 2
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Ninja
Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
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If we must go to war then we need to go to war. If that is a bad decision then the president should be criticized for it but I don't think much of the criticism should be economic in nature. NFM, what if you can't sell it to the people?
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Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)
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#128387 - 07/14/08 07:12 PM
Re: Politics 2
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Ninja
Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
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Originally posted by knight_tour: I understood when W Bush got into office that he would most likely push us into a war (preferably with Iraq), so I can and do blame him for what has followed. Also, even without the war his policies still would have been bigger government and more spending. You could see that coming even before 9/11. KT, I have two questions. What is your stand on war against Iran? Was this also in Bush's agenda before 9/11?
_________________________
Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)
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#128388 - 07/14/08 07:30 PM
Re: Politics 2
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Ninja
Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
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Originally posted by knight_tour: In my experience it has been both. And, looking at the presidents we have had since Reagan, it looks the same - the government gets larger under the Republicans and spending is out of control. When you say "Under Republicans", or "Under Democrats", are you talking about which party held the White House? Or the Congress? Federal spending certainly ballooned during the Reagan years. They tried to tell us that the government had less money because of his tax cuts, but I saw a chart in the New Zork Times showing that the Federal kitty had nearly doubled during his tenure, from about 500 billion to about 950 billion. The government simply spent all of the new money and more. So, is that the Republicans' fault because they controlled the White House, or the Democrats fault because they countrolled the Green House? All spending bills originate in the House of Representatives, of course, but the President has to sign them, which seems to make them both culpable. The President submits a yearly budget, of course, but am I misremembering, or weren't all of Reagan's budgets rejected? I could swear that the Democrats used to hire an ambulance every year to take his budget to Capital Hill, as a way of showing that it was D.O.A. What would happen if a President didn't play that game? I've heard McCain say that as President, he'd get out his pen and veto every bill with wasteful spending in it. He does have a reputation as a budget slasher, so he just might be serious. But if he did that, would people approve, or would they just blame him for being obstructionist? The budget did seem better in the 90's, with the Republicans in the Green House and a Democrat in the White one.
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"I brought the Atom Bomb. I think it's a good time to use it." -- Dr. Richard Gordon, King Dinosaur
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#128389 - 07/14/08 08:18 PM
Re: Politics 2
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Ninja
Registered: 06/02/03
Loc: South Dakota, USA
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Originally posted by Petrosianic: What would happen if a President didn't play that game? I've heard McCain say that as President, he'd get out his pen and veto every bill with wasteful spending in it. He does have a reputation as a budget slasher, so he just might be serious. But if he did that, would people approve, or would they just blame him for being obstructionist? Depends on how the story gets spun. With the right spin a heavy veto pen would be applauded. With the wrong spin, which is much more likely, a heavy veto pen would be viewed as obstructionist, insensitive, etc. I imagine that faced with legitimate veto threats congress will simply attach veto-proof legislation to the crap. Very few in the general public will understand why critical legislation is being veto by the president when know one except the president is likely to talk about the attached pork. Originally posted by Petrosianic: The budget did seem better in the 90's, with the Republicans in the Green House and a Democrat in the White one. I'll say it again....I vote my heart for the presidency. For congress I make my best guess at who will actually win the presidency and vote for the opposite party.
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When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? --John Maynard Keynes
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#128390 - 07/14/08 11:20 PM
Re: Politics 2
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Ninja
Registered: 10/17/03
Loc: Pennsylvania
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Well, there were some very interesting "political goings-on" over this past weekend in Europe and the Middle East that Joel Rosenberg talked about today, (Monday, July 14th, 2008), IN HIS BLOG. Chess Fan
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**Everyone, please feel free to click on to, and, to read: -- "My End Times Blog" **
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#128391 - 07/15/08 11:51 AM
Re: Politics 2
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Member
Registered: 02/15/05
Loc: Reykjavik, Iceland
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Originally posted by PircAlert: Originally posted by knight_tour: I understood when W Bush got into office that he would most likely push us into a war (preferably with Iraq), so I can and do blame him for what has followed. Also, even without the war his policies still would have been bigger government and more spending. You could see that coming even before 9/11. KT, I have two questions. What is your stand on war against Iran? Was this also in Bush's agenda before 9/11? No, their interest was against Iraq. I think a war against Iran would be a big mistake. If it is going to happen, it should only be after real diplomatic efforts have actually been exhausted, something that rarely seems to happen these days. If Israel decides to start it, though, then I suppose we would have little choice but to help them. I think we should push hard to resolve the issue with Iran without letting it come to war.
_________________________
"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain
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#128392 - 07/15/08 11:54 AM
Re: Politics 2
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Member
Registered: 02/15/05
Loc: Reykjavik, Iceland
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Originally posted by Petrosianic: Originally posted by knight_tour: In my experience it has been both. And, looking at the presidents we have had since Reagan, it looks the same - the government gets larger under the Republicans and spending is out of control. When you say "Under Republicans", or "Under Democrats", are you talking about which party held the White House? Or the Congress?
Federal spending certainly ballooned during the Reagan years. They tried to tell us that the government had less money because of his tax cuts, but I saw a chart in the New Zork Times showing that the Federal kitty had nearly doubled during his tenure, from about 500 billion to about 950 billion. The government simply spent all of the new money and more.
So, is that the Republicans' fault because they controlled the White House, or the Democrats fault because they countrolled the Green House? All spending bills originate in the House of Representatives, of course, but the President has to sign them, which seems to make them both culpable.
The President submits a yearly budget, of course, but am I misremembering, or weren't all of Reagan's budgets rejected? I could swear that the Democrats used to hire an ambulance every year to take his budget to Capital Hill, as a way of showing that it was D.O.A.
What would happen if a President didn't play that game? I've heard McCain say that as President, he'd get out his pen and veto every bill with wasteful spending in it. He does have a reputation as a budget slasher, so he just might be serious. But if he did that, would people approve, or would they just blame him for being obstructionist?
The budget did seem better in the 90's, with the Republicans in the Green House and a Democrat in the White one. I can't stand Congress, true, but I typically have to blame the person in the white house rather than Congress, because the American people have little patience for Congress. If Congress keeps blocking budgets indefinately then the people blame the Congress and not the President, so Congress will typically back down at some point. The President sets the tone for what is going on, and though a President rarely gets everything his way, he gets enough that it is what really counts. I do, however, think that recent Democrats have been particularly spineless.
_________________________
"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain
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