Jung is a poor man's Lacan at best anyway.

While, in my personal opinion, (from every time that I have seen, and/or, heard Dr. David Jeremiah preach), I think that Dr. Jeremiah is always used in a great way by Almighty God to bring forth the Truth from the Bible, I just wanted to re-post my previous quote with the link to the most recent Bible prophecy message from Dr. Jeremiah in my quote above.

Just in case someone might have missed my previous post in my quote above, I just want to emphasize here that Dr. Jeremiah's message from the Word of God, (in the link in the quote above), concerning the up-coming War of Gog and Magog is, quite simply, *the clearest and most easily understood explanation of this up-coming future prophetic war that I have ever seen and heard!*

If you have not seen this video of Dr. Jeremiah's message yet, (and if you would really like to see it), please click on to the link in my quote above, and, be prepared to learn about what the future holds for those nations and people groups who are going to be evil enough and foolish enough to attempt to invade and attack the nation of Israel, *after the Rapture of the Church of Jesus Christ*, and, during the up-coming Tribulation period here upon this Earth.


Chess Fan

I agree with you here Ken. Admittedly what we consider "evidence" may vary depending on our beliefs.

What I find interesting is how atheists believe in certain moral claims without any of the evidence of the type they claim they must have before they believe in God. The contradictions are ripe. What sort of verification experiment can we do to confirm it was indeed "wrong" to kill people in the holocaust?

For me all my beliefs are subject to the same standards. I think this is in part what it means to be rational. If I can't help but believe in certain moral beliefs, I then account for that in my other beliefs. I don't out of thin air just create ad hoc explanations for my moral beliefs.

I'm not sure what religions your talking about, but all the same kind of evidence? What other religions are you talking about?

There are a few that think insurance is sinful because you're saying that you don't trust God to look after you. However, I suspect most are along the lines of "Trust in God, but keep your powder dry".

Time for baseball talk then?

It wouldn't really even matter for my argument if there weren't any, because ancient attestations are such an ubiquitous source of evidence for any miracle, but you might want to look at this for some examples. The article opens with "Every culture that is examined, whether ancient or modern, has the concept of a dying and resurrected god."

But as I say, even if this weren't so, the fact that Jesus' resurrection story looks like a true ancient resurrection would look like is in no way sufficient to make it likely. Compare: a man comes home wet. This is entirely consistent with him having taken a clothed shower before he got home; in fact there's no way for his appearance to suggest such a conclusion any more. Nevertheless it's more likely that it's simply raining outside.

Well, no matter what sinful mankind may think, ultimately, it is Almighty God's will that *shall be done* concerning this sinful, fallen Earth on which we are now living, because, the bottom line of all of this is that it is Almighty God who is "Upholding the Universe!"


Chess Fan

Have you studied the morality argument, NFM? I just heard a speaker on a podcast (Dr. Francis Collins) say it was a very persuasive argument and not one that should be dismissed lightly. I know it certainly comes up quite a bit in discussions and is probably important to know the arguments for and against it.

Off-hand, do you know any 'dummy' guides that outline the basics so you can jump into the heavier material?

Couldn't making insurance available be his way of looking after you? If I throw you a rope and you refuse to grab it, you could hardly say that I wasn't looking out for you.

But the question you're answering was specifically about the rapture, rather than financial planning in general, wasn't it? It does seem to me that having a 401k or retirement plan means that you're admitting a signifigant probability that you'll be around long enough to use it. If you have a long-term plan, you can't also claim certainty in a short term rapture, right? At least not one that you'll be involved in. Maybe you can still claim certainty that there will be one, but are are admitting doubt that you personally will be included in it.

Oh absolutely. Most believers would just view it as being good stewards, counting the cost, etc (biblical principles). There's just a few extremists out there who think otherwise. One guy who told me he thought it was sinful was 25 years old at the time. By 35 years old he had a family...and insurance on everything.

You know, if anyone has a retirement fund but thinks they'll be raptured very soon, perhaps they'd like to donate the retirement fund to a worthy cause...like, ohh say, me. Ok, or a charity then. I think most rational people will hang onto their funds because they know the rapture could come at any time, but there's no guarantee it will come before they retire, or even in this century.

Perhaps Linds-berg sheeple who are being whipped into a frothing flock frenzy about an imminent rapture, wetting their pants in excitement at the latest bad news in the paper, convinced it means the time is now...perhaps they'd be the ones that wouldn't have a retirement plan or ran around giving it away...

...but I think even most of them will hedge their bets too just in case things aren't as imminent as they appear (God's time is not man's time, no matter how much the fringe flock excitedly wiggle in their armchairs and point to "signs, signs, everywhere there are signs" that God needs to come back so soon).

Not hypocrisy, by any means though. They have an out...no man knows the day or hour. They think it is any day or hour now, but they do know the possiblity is they won't see the rapture. Actually they won't see the rapture as they think they will...that idea is based on jigsaw puzzle theology that takes verses out of context and stitches them with other verses also taken out of context. Bad theology, good fodder for fiction books and movies.