You are much too forward, stranger. If you wish to woo me, you must be more subtle.

p.s. What are your measurements?

Ed has rondino on ignore. This is a full-blown soap opera.

No no no. Ed is about to apologize. I can feel it. This is all much ado about nothing. Best I can figure is that Ed is taking three years of frustration with NFM out on me. Either that or his air conditioning is on the fritz. Or he has become, suddenly, an old crank. Or he fell in a cactus patch. (I'll figure it out sooner or later, Ed; you might as well fess up....) But I am beginning to see a pattern here: just a couple of months ago CF figured it was my spiritual emptiness that led Krish to call him a sore loser.

Call me Chess Ninja Jesus (CNJ) -- I suffer here for the sins of others. (Second time I've used that line.)

No apologies. I have nothing more to say. Watching rondino and NFM argue about what I am saying is like watching two monkeys arguing about the size of the shadow of a jackass.

I said what I said solely so that any passing reader will not think that their caricatures of my statements are what I said.

Ed Yetman, III
YetmanBrothers.com

Livarsi 'na pietra di la scarpa!

Ed Yetman, III
YetmanBrothers.com

Really? That's it? Oh my goodness. Ed. Well, okay. You are attacking me for no good reason. If I have done anything wrong, it is the minor sin of using certain terms, in a moment of frivolity, in a less than philosophically-rigorous manner, for which I apologized. And by the way, I don't think I have ever had a discussion with you about faith, belief, etc. I know that you and NFM have discussed it ad nauseam, and that you have butted heads repeatedly over how to define these terms, but how is that my fault? I find it staggering that you aren't a big enough man to accept my apology and to offer one yourself for blowing this completely out of proportion.

Man. I've been turning the other cheek so often recently I've been beaten senseless. Sigh. Oh well. You really surprised me, Ed. I expected...something else. But life is too short, I suppose, to worry about these sorts of things. So...

I apologize for my role in this. Please believe me when I tell you that I did not mean to offend you in any way.

Take care. Stay out of the midday sun. Peace.

I thought that rondino agreed with Ed on the recently discussed topics like proof of what happened vs. belief. Wondering why they are arguing with each other with so strongly. Fundamentally, I fail to see what their disagreement is all about here other than some misunderstanding.

Is well-oiled the same person as well-named? I am unable to trace that guy's old name. Who was he before?

Disclaimer:
My gray hair far outnumbers my gray cells. If I missed that trail of your discussion, blame it on my neurons.

GC, I like your point about the possible co-rationality of contradictory propositions. It reminds me of a discussion about logical versus natural supervenience, and a priori versus a posteriori necessary truths, that I've been reading in a book lately. It seems to me that while true, the VR counter-factual world you mention is not immediately relevant to our discussion, so long as we are only considering whether or not there are rational arguments to the existence of God based on a posteriori necessary truths about our particular World. I might be off base here though, my thoughts are only half-baked.

I would say there is an important distinction between accepting a religion on rational grounds and believing in God on rational grounds. Especially if the argument is that one could accept a religion without believing in God, which I think is the point of your argument. We are focused on rational grounds for belief in God, so I don't think the point is relevant.

Gee, rondino, I guess that my sincere apology to you that I sent to you by Private Message yesterday concerning my having called you a "spiritually empty" person *publically* on the Message Board was not good enough for you, huh?

Now, rondino, once again, you decide that you have to air this past wrong that I did to you *publically* on the Message Board for yourself.

Wasn't my private apology to you that I sent to you by PM yesterday good enough for you to accept??


Chess Fan

5 cubits, give or take a shekel.