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#144333 - 04/02/09 05:27 AM Re: World Religions [Re: Petrosianic]
PircAlert Moderator Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Petrosianic
So, would you accept that someone who evangelized, not because he cared about getting results, but only because of how good he thought he looked doing it, might not be saved at all, even though he believed in the Resurrection? This stuff is pretty explicit. Just saying "Lord, Lord" isn't enough.

Exactly. Either they could be false prophet to begin with (bible mentions them too) OR they could have strayed away from the faith (I Tim 6:10 ...while some coveted after (love of money), they have erred from faith, and pierced themselves with many sorrows. It doesn't say they lost their salvation but losing salvation is also possible like we can see from the verse that you quoted).

So you need to properly work out your salvation - not by your own strength like the Israelites who had come out of Egypt did, who finally wouldn't be able to enter into the rest, but through faith and through the help of the Spirit of God. Cause your adversary is like a roaring lion trying to catch hold of his prey. The working out your salvation part is to be careful not to step out of God's protection, I think.

So salvation is, God by His grace chooses his people who believes in him (like the seed of Abraham from the man who believed in Him) and by his son Jesus the passover lamb he delivers them from the captivity of devil (from the bondage of Egypt) and by His Holy Spirit he provides all sorts of help in every moment and, in turn, expects them to work their way out, through faith having conscience of those facts, into the eternal life! (to cross over wilderness into the promised land).
_________________________
Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)

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#144341 - 04/02/09 08:15 PM Re: World Religions [Re: PircAlert]
Chess Fan Offline
Ninja

Registered: 10/17/03
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: PircAlert
...but losing salvation is also possible like we can see from the verse that you, (Petrosianic), quoted.

@PircAlert:

What verse did Petrosianic quote that makes you think that you can lose your salvation *after* you become truly saved?? confused


Chess Fan
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**Everyone, please feel free to click on to, and, to read: -- "My End Times Blog" **

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#144342 - 04/02/09 08:27 PM Re: World Religions [Re: Chess Fan]
niceforkinmove Offline
Ninja

Registered: 02/24/03
Loc: Bloomington
Christians should persist in the faith.
_________________________
I have pondered the wisdom of the sages. I see now I have slain without knowledge of what to do rightly. But what care I for such men?--Genghis Khan

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#144343 - 04/02/09 08:51 PM Re: World Religions [Re: Petrosianic]
spock Offline
Ninja

Registered: 06/02/03
Loc: South Dakota, USA
Originally Posted By: Petrosianic


That reminds me, that when I was with Dell (which has a LOT of tech support in India now), I would sometimes call over to one of those departments, and have someone obviously from India answer, but give an American sounding name. I'd hear a voice with a very thick accent answering, and saying something like "Hello, this is Fred." I was never sure what the deal with that was. I wanted to say something like "Your name is NOT Fred. Maybe Phred." I assume that the company asked them to introduce themselves by American names, for the comfort level of the customers, but I never really heard. It seems like you could offend your employees by asking them to do that. I wonder if they got to pick their own names, or if they were assigned names? I'd wondered, if Dell's overseas business picked up, if we might be asked to pick Indian names for ourselves when talking with those customers (If that had ever happened, and they'd let us pick names, I'd wanted to ask for Viswanathan).


A few years back there was a 60 Minutes piece on the training of telephone techs in India. Part of the training was having the trainees select an American sounding name.

That's about all I can remember though.
_________________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?
--John Maynard Keynes

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#144346 - 04/03/09 04:53 AM Re: World Religions [Re: Chess Fan]
PircAlert Moderator Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Chess Fan
Originally Posted By: PircAlert
...but losing salvation is also possible like we can see from the verse that you, (Petrosianic), quoted.

@PircAlert:

What verse did Petrosianic quote that makes you think that you can lose your salvation *after* you become truly saved?? confused


Chess Fan



Hi ChessFan,
This was the verse..
Originally Posted By: Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Obviously I'm assuming they were not lying. Otherwise, Jesus would have told them "depart from me, you liars!". So they must have done everything they said they did. Is there another explanation for this?

Also the one verse I quoted before when Paul writes to Romans, saints and beloved of God "..if you live after the flesh, you shall die." I

I know noone cease to be the son of their parents just because you disobey or just because they did something bad, but it could happen in rarest of rare occasions. But these warnings are just to be extra-careful and not take things for granted, probably?? smile
_________________________
Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)

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#144347 - 04/03/09 04:54 AM Re: World Religions [Re: niceforkinmove]
PircAlert Moderator Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: niceforkinmove
Christians should persist in the faith.

Yep.

Let me put it slightly different. Christians should persist in the faith through faith!

Because I think you can't persist on being in the faith or persist in doing any good or whatever that is through your own strength. If that is what is expected and if you can accomplish that, then grace is just a wasteful thing and the whole thing becomes more like abiding a law. Instead, you recognize it as a team work and you carry it out through faith. And you work along with the power that works inside you to persist in the faith!
_________________________
Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)

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#144348 - 04/03/09 07:06 AM Re: World Religions [Re: PircAlert]
Morrowind Offline
Rook

Registered: 10/09/03
Loc: Mobile, AL
_________________________
Those who would sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither. As true today, as when Ben Franklin said it. Beware the military-industrial complex!

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#144350 - 04/03/09 07:50 AM Re: World Religions [Re: Morrowind]
South Coast Kevin Moderator Online   content
King

Registered: 12/02/06
Loc: Southampton, England
Morrowind, could you please give a little summary of the article you are linking to rather than just posting the link? Thanks!
_________________________
I blog about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and anything else that interests me. Have a read if you're interested too!

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#144351 - 04/03/09 08:33 AM Re: World Religions [Re: South Coast Kevin]
Morrowind Offline
Rook

Registered: 10/09/03
Loc: Mobile, AL
Religion and human rights

The meaning of freedom
Apr 2nd 2009

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13413974
_________________________
Those who would sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither. As true today, as when Ben Franklin said it. Beware the military-industrial complex!

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#144355 - 04/03/09 01:02 PM Re: World Religions [Re: spock]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
Originally Posted By: spock
A few years back there was a 60 Minutes piece on the training of telephone techs in India. Part of the training was having the trainees select an American sounding name.

That's what I suspected, but I wasn't sure. They're, typically, treating the wrong thing. The brushback Dell has about its overseas techs is about not being able to understand them, not about their having long names. And even long names can be abbreviated, rather than changed (Viswanathan = Vishy, et cetera).

I did find the training doc meant to teach Indian techs about how American English differed from British. That was one of the points they mentioned, that American English was economical and made more use of abbreviations (technician = tech). One point it didn't make is how that economy sometimes manifested itself in simpler spellings (colour = color, plough = plow, encyclopaedia=encyclopedia, manoeuvre = maneuver, cheque = check, et cetera). I guess that's not so important for someone whose job is conducted over the phone. I'll maybe go through it and post some more of the points in the English Grammar thread.


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