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#151079 - 12/17/09 09:45 AM Re: Reasons to be cynical about pro sports. [Re: Petrosianic]
Ed Yetman, III Offline
Ninja

Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
RE: your last paragraph. That's reasons #2 and #3 once again.
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Ed Yetman, III
YetmanBrothers.com

"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.

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#151084 - 12/17/09 11:30 AM Re: Reasons to be cynical about pro sports. [Re: Ed Yetman, III]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
Originally Posted By: Ed Yetman, III
As for getting better as a player, there is a vile and nasty trade-off: the more you emulate the greats, the less your own play is original. It is a Nietzschean thing.

That does sometimes happen. There was a time when a lot of players were trying the Najdorf Sicilian (because Fischer played it) and coming to grief with it because it required a LOT of prep to play it right and really isn't at all the kind of thing a beginner should play. But that's one of the lures of chess. You don't have to just TRY to be like the big guys, you can literally play the exact same moves they do. What other sport offers that?

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#151085 - 12/17/09 11:41 AM Re: Reasons to be cynical about pro sports. [Re: Ed Yetman, III]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
Originally Posted By: Ed Yetman, III
RE: hockey players in college. I have my doubts that any hockey player who graduates from an American college gets a real degree. More likely a piece of paper with no substance behind it. I used to tutor college athletes, and if they graduated a pumpkin could graduate.

Do you know the old joke? The star halfback can't play in the big game because of academic ineligibility after failing a match test. The coach takes him to the professor and begs for a chance for him to play. The professor says okay, I'll give him a test that nobody could screw up. So, the professor asks "What's 2+2?" The kid says "4", and the coach says "Oh please, give him another chance!"

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#151094 - 12/17/09 03:17 PM Re: Reasons to be cynical about pro sports. [Re: Petrosianic]
Ed Yetman, III Offline
Ninja

Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
RE: Originality in chess. It gets tougher all the time to be original, but then again that only adds to the charm of it.

RE: Joke. Good one. And so true!
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Ed Yetman, III
YetmanBrothers.com

"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.

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#151129 - 12/18/09 10:23 AM Re: Reasons to be cynical about pro sports. [Re: Ed Yetman, III]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
I wonder how many other teams have anachronistic or "illogical" names? The Los Angeles Lakers are named after the Great Lakes (a holdover from the days when they were in Minnesota). The Utah Jazz's name made a lot more sense when they were the New Orleans Jazz. And we all know the bit about the New York Jets and Giants playing in New Jersey (and the Giants once briefly played in Connecticut).

The Houston Oilers (which makes sense) were called the Tennessee Oilers (which doesn't) for a couple of years after they moved, until they changed their name to the Titans. (When I heard they were going to change the name, I was LONGING for them to become the Tennessee Tuxedos, but owners seem to have NO sense of humor about these things).

Not anachronistic exactly, just bizarre, that the Montreal Expos were named after the 1967 World's Fair. On the other hand, I find it boring to just name teams after birds and animals (Cardinals, Blue Jays, Tigers, Panthers), so I shouldn't turn around and criticize them for being too imaginative.

Speaking of UNimaginative, how dull (and confusing) was it when there were two teams called the New York Giants (one baseball, one football)? Or when there were two Saint Louis Cardinals teams simultaneously? Or when the same name is used in different sports (Cleveland Browns, Saint Louis Browns)? How can people have confidence in your ability to build a winning team when you can't even be bothered to think of an original name?

And some teams steal names from teams of the past. The Houston Texans re-used the name of the old AFL Dallas Texans, which re-used the name of the NFL Dallas Texans of 1952. The Tennessee Titans stole the former name of the New York Jets. The Milwaukee Brewers and Baltimore Orioles are directly named after turn of the century teams.

Also bizarre is what happened to the Washington Senators. In 1961 they moved to Minnesota. A new franchise was put in its place, but the new one was called Washington Senators also. If you just looked at the standings from year to year you'd never know that there was now a completely different team there.

Similar, but worse is what happened with the Cleveland Browns. They became the Baltimore Ravens (one of the few animal names I like, since they're named after Edgar Allen Poe), then a few years later a new franchise was created and dubbed the Cleveland Browns. But they own the rights to the record book of the original Browns, and use it to pretend to be the same team as the original, even though they're not any more than the New Senators were the same team as the Old Senators.

The current National League Washington baseball team is called the Washington Nationals. Logical, if a bit boring. But the Old Washington Senators were also called the Washington Nationals for much of their existence, even though they played in the American League. (Actually I like that, as it reflects the confusion in Washington nicely).

Not bizarre, but annoying is how the same team can keep changing their name without significantly changing their location. Los Angeles Angels = California Angels = Anaheim Angels = Los Angeles Angels again. (Of course the name "Angels" derives from "Angeles" in the first place, so that name also made less sense when it was the Anaheim or California Angels). Or Phoenix Cardinals = Arizona Cardinals. Or how the Dallas Cowboys could play in Irving without having to call themselves a wimpy name like Irving Cowboys. (Irving??) Maybe they should have called themselves the Irving Washingtons (See??? Owners have no sense of humor not to think of these things!)

Since Ted Turner bought the Braves, he modestly started calling them America's Team (In imitation of the Cowboys, but at least they had that name given to them by NFL Films). But the 1930's is the time that the Braves were REALLY America's Team, since they represented the biggest issue of the day: The Depression. Not just 10 straight losing years, but humiliatingly losing years. With typical Loser's Mentality, they thought the name was the problem and changed it to the Bees for 5 years, before admitting that that wasn't it and changing it back to Braves.

I remember when I was a kid, we all wondered what on earth "Dodgers" meant. Were they named after people who went to Canada to avoid the draft? Then someone told me that it was originally "Trolley Dodgers" from when they were in Brooklyn, which sort of made sense. (I also remember wondering what on earth a "Met" was.) But for the "What Were They Thinking??" Prize, I still like the Dayton Triangles.

For that matter, why on earth should a landlocked city like Pittsburgh call their team the Pirates? They've ALWAYS played in Pittsburgh, so it's not like they have an excuse, like that they used to be in Key West or something.

For mixed metaphors, we have the San Diego Chargers. They used to have charging horses on their helmets, now lightning bolts. But they were named after neither. They were named after a credit card (known as a charger plate in those days).

I've never liked the current trend of naming ballparks after corporations, but the old names were often pretty dull (usually named after the team that played there [Yankee Stadium] or the location [Fulton County Stadium]). Naming it after the team could be tricky when other teams played there too (like the Oilers playing in the Astrodome. How embarrassing is that when your own home field is named after another team?). One unpopular name before the Corporate Era was when the Texas Rangers named their new ballpark "The Ballpark in Arlington". Lots of people hoped it would be named after Nolan Ryan, but instead it got a hoity-toity name that sounded vaguely reminiscent of that "The Artist Known as Prince" jazz. "The Ballpark in Arlington" sounds less like a ballpark than like an exclusive restaurant, where the peanut vendor sells martinis in a tuxedo, with a towel draped over his arm. Why not just call it "Chez Arlington", and have done with it?

Naming Divisions after geographical locations has always looked ridiculous when teams get moved around. What sense did it make when Saint Louis was in the East and Atlanta was in the West? There are too many examples of that to name them all. Bob & Ray once did a hilarious sketch about a team owner explaining an incredibly complicated playoff schedule in a league that was divided into Northwestern and Southeastern Divisions. At one point he gets it wrong and calls them the Northeast and Southwest divisions, and when the error is pointed out, he just says "Oh, I don't care, the teams all get moved around anyway". When he gets around to explaining the championship, he says that 3 teams qualify, but they flip a coin to get rid of one right away, and the other two play until one team wins 7 games, or until they hit the first of February, whichever comes first. "Tell me, do you really think you can keep interest in indoor baseball going until the first of February?" "No, I don't think we can." For a while in the 60's, the NFL tried to do away with the problem by eliminating the whole North, South, East, West thing and just having Century, Coastal, Capital, and Central divisions, but it made too much sense and was quickly abandoned. (Besides, Central and Coastal would have gotten them in trouble eventually, too.)

They have an Army/Navy game, but they never had a game between the Jacksonville Generals and the Louisville Colonels. (I'd bet on the Generals, myself).

I wonder if the penchant for odd team namings comes from the original American League President, Ban Johnson? When somebody's mom names them after a roll-on deodorant, weirdness just has to follow.

The Tampa Bay Devil Rays were named after a fish, but changed their name to just the "Rays" a year or so ago, (who wants to root for a team with Devil in the name?). They should have taken a page from Dark Shadows, which did a couple of episodes in which the Devil appeared, but they filed the serial numbers off and just called him "Diabolos" in the credits (A Prince of Darkness, but not any one in particular). Tampa Bay Diabolos Rays sounds good to me. The "Rays" versus the Angels no longer has the same kitsch that Devil Rays vs. Angels had.

During the war, the manpower shortage temporarily forced the Eagles and the Steelers to join together as a single team called the Steagles (I guess the "Eagers" didn't sound as good).

And of course we know how the Reds became the Redlegs for a few years during the 50's. I approve of fighting communism as much as the next guy, but Redlegs?? What's that supposed to mean? That they went to the beach and forgot to put suntan lotion on half their bodies?? What's wrong with Red Dwarves? Or Red Kryptonites? Or Red Roses (to build up the female fan base). Or no, no, I've got it! Redrums!! Cincinnati Redrums, that's the ticket! (Redlegs. Ick!)

I don't know if this is on topic or not, but it is if I say that I'm tossing it out on the chance that there might be some reason to give up sports in here somewhere.
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"I brought the Atom Bomb. I think it's a good time to use it." -- Dr. Richard Gordon, King Dinosaur

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#151136 - 12/18/09 02:50 PM Re: Reasons to be cynical about pro sports. [Re: Petrosianic]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
Another funny naming convention. A lot of corporations officially change their names to their initials. Like, Texas Agricultural and Mechanical College, (long known as "Texas A&M") eventually changed their official name to just "A&M". I remember seeing Jay leno once holding up a headline reading "A&M Changes Name To A&M", and he commented "Think how much it'll cost to change all the letterheads!" Same with America Online. It was always informally called "AOL", but that's now the official name. It's "America Online" no longer. I couldn't even tell you exactly when the name change happened.

The Philadelphia/Kansas City/Oakland Athletics did something similar. Some time in the 70's, they officially changed their team name to just the A's (which is what everyone called them anyway). Then in the 80's, they changed it back to Athletics. (And you wonder how desk jockeys keep themselves amused).

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#151137 - 12/18/09 03:04 PM Re: Reasons to be cynical about pro sports. [Re: Petrosianic]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
For teams stealing each other's name, the Yankees used to be the Baltimore Orioles (in 1901 and 1902), while the Orioles used to be the Milwaukee Brewers (in 1901). The Brewers used to be the Seattle Pilots, which isn't the name of a current team, so they lose this game of musical chairs.

Of course the Baltimore Orioles who used to be the Brewers should not be confused with the National League Baltimore Orioles that was pinched out the last time the league contracted (in 1899, the year that the infamous Cleveland Spiders were stomped out of existence).

Any time the Rangers and the Twins play, it's a battle of the two Washington Senators teams. But positively Lewis Carrollian was the Looking Glass World Series in 1944 when the current Saint Louis Browns met the team that used to be called the Saint Louis Browns.

(Is anybody confused yet? They retire player's numbers, how come they don't retire team names?)

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#151138 - 12/18/09 03:08 PM Re: Reasons to be cynical about pro sports. [Re: Petrosianic]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
You know, now that the Devil Rays have become just the Rays, they'd match up well against the Dayton Triangles. That'd be a hit in any math class in the country.

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#151150 - 12/19/09 09:41 AM Re: Reasons to be cynical about pro sports. [Re: Petrosianic]
Ed Yetman, III Offline
Ninja

Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Petro, I love the commentary. I wish I could add to it, but it is just perfect as is.
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III
YetmanBrothers.com

"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.

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#151165 - 12/19/09 08:06 PM Re: Reasons to be cynical about pro sports. [Re: Ed Yetman, III]
The Gelatinous Cube Global Moderator Offline
Recovering Necromancer

Registered: 02/25/04
Loc: Sublime Underbelly
Petro, you didn't point out that for a while the Angels were called the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.

And for many years two of the eight teams in the CFL were called the Roughriders.
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