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#153048 - 03/09/10 01:52 AM Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4 [Re: Ed Yetman, III]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
Yeah, but which would you prefer to face? 3. N-QB3 or 3. N-Q2? (Leaving aside 3. P-K5, which I'd assume is your favorite. At least that's the one I most like to face when playing the French.)

The Exchange Variation is the French's big weakness. It's hard to use the French in a must-win game when White can "Petroffy" the opening with 3. PxP. (like Petrified Wood, but harder). There's no similar "Instant Draw" variation in the Sicilian.


Another thing; your question about which line is the best, is vague. Best for whom? For a GM? For a club player? For a beginner? For a computer? For a beginner, I still think 1...P-K4 is the best line. Learn the Double King Pawn openings and ideas behind them, and go from there. I wouldn't recommend the Sicilian to someone just starting out.

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#153049 - 03/09/10 06:09 AM Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4 [Re: Petrosianic]
Ed Yetman, III Offline
Ninja

Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
I can't say I have a preference for either. It is like looking for a date: blonde, brunette, or redhead, it doesn't matter.

I never worry about the Exchange Variation. Black is slightly better in the Exchange, so Black need only outplay White.

Hoisting me with my own philosophical petard, eh? Well, I guess I ought to enjoy the ride. I used to think that the only good moves are 1. P-K4 and 1.P-Q4, and that ultimately only 1...P-K4 and 1...P-Q4, respectively, would be playable. I'm not sure I think that is the future of opening theory. When you consider the fruitful field for blunders in chess, and the fact that two knights cannot mate a bare king, there ought to be lots of room for risk-taking in the opening.

I am asking what people like to play, assuming that no one plays a defense he consider inferior.


Edited by Ed Yetman, III (03/09/10 06:11 AM)
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III
YetmanBrothers.com

"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.

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#153051 - 03/09/10 06:23 AM Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4 [Re: Guy Kerr]
Ed Yetman, III Offline
Ninja

Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Guy Kerr
Depends on the individual (taste, style, playing strength, willingness to study, etc.), of course.

Statistically, if one went to a massive database (eg Chessbase Megabase) and examined results for all "comparable" (eg IM-IM, GM-GM) pairs of opponents, I'm pretty sure the Sicilian would have the highest scoring percentage for Black. This would suggest (gasp) that Bobby was wrong...

But it all depends on the individual.


Okay, Guy, valid point. If you are sitting there with Black, how do you react to. 1.P-K4?
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III
YetmanBrothers.com

"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.

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#153057 - 03/09/10 11:28 AM Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4 [Re: Ed Yetman, III]
Guy Kerr Offline
Ninja

Registered: 01/14/03
Loc: A trailer park in Quebec
Used to play 1...e5 and the Black side of Spanish (R Lopez) if allowed, sometimes Caro-Kann.

Got tired of "Spanish Torture", and C-K gives few winning chances (and opportunities for torture in some of the insane sharp "Advance" lines), so I'm trying to take up the Sicilian.

Currently answering 1. e4 with 1...c5, preferably the Kan (Paulsen), though I've also studied the Taimanov. More fashionable Sicilians like Najdorf, Scheveningen, Dragon require far too much theory/study for me. The Rauzer is somewhat to my taste, but current statistics (granted, higher-level games than mine) are very bad.


Edited by Guy Kerr (03/09/10 11:31 AM)

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#153058 - 03/09/10 12:06 PM Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4 [Re: Ed Yetman, III]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
Originally Posted By: Ed Yetman, III
I never worry about the Exchange Variation. Black is slightly better in the Exchange, so Black need only outplay White.


I think Black does win more than White with the Exchange Variation, but the main reason for this is that Black is usually the stronger player. If two equally matched players play it, it's hard enough for Black to play to win against a White opponent determined to draw. The Petroffied French makes it even harder.

Against significantly weaker players, I've sometimes played the inferior 3...QxP against the Exchange Variation, just to keep it less symmetrical.

Generally I prefer to face 3. N-QB3 over 3. N-Q2, just because it gives Black more choices. It's also nice to be able to hit White's QP with P-QB4, when he can't play P-QB3 to support it.

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#153061 - 03/09/10 02:13 PM Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4 [Re: Petrosianic]
Guy Kerr Offline
Ninja

Registered: 01/14/03
Loc: A trailer park in Quebec
According to chessgames.com, Tiviakov has 51 games in Center Counter as Black, including 3 at this year's Corus. He scores well (13 wins, 7 losses. 31 draws). Granted, some wins may be vs. lower-rated players...


Edited by Guy Kerr (03/09/10 02:15 PM)

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#153064 - 03/09/10 05:03 PM Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4 [Re: Guy Kerr]
Ed Yetman, III Offline
Ninja

Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Once, when I was young, I played 1. P-K4 P-K3, 2. P-Q4 P-Q4, 3. PxP B-Q3, 4. PxP BxKP. I managed to win after a lot of blunders. I've always wanted to try it again.
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III
YetmanBrothers.com

"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.

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#153083 - 03/10/10 10:43 AM Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4 [Re: Ed Yetman, III]
FirebrandX Offline
Ninja

Registered: 12/28/02
Loc: Dallas, TX
Objectively speaking, probably it comes down to either the Sicilian or the open games (1...e5). Both are the dominant choice amongst all GMs, and surely for good reason.

As for the french, I've lately been having fun transposing white into it if they are a BDG player. My main choice is the Scandinavian, but if white trots out 2. d4, I follow it up with e6 and they end up having to deal with a french defense on the spot.
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What would Rybka do?

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#153085 - 03/10/10 11:16 AM Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4 [Re: FirebrandX]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
I'm not sure about the Center Counter Defense, at least as far as the 2...QxP lines go. Surely it's "wrong" to bring the Queen out that early, just to have it kicked by the Knight. I think of it as playable, sorta, but also decidedly offbeat. To me it seems like something 19th century players played to avoid the Evans Gambit before better defenses were discovered.

One advantage of transposing to the French from the Center Counter is that it avoids the 2. P-Q3 lines in the French. Assuming that Black wants to avoid them. What do you think about those, Ed? those positions usually end up looking like a Naidni Sgnik (aka King's Indian Reversed). Objectively Black shouldn't have reason to fear it, but it's not what he wanted when he played the French either. He sometimes has to be a bit careful of positions that result after P-K5 by White, in which all of his pieces are bunched over on the Queenside, and Black's king seems alone on the Kingside.

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#153086 - 03/10/10 11:39 AM Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4 [Re: FirebrandX]
Petrosianic Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
Originally Posted By: FirebrandX
As for the french, I've lately been having fun transposing white into it if they are a BDG player. My main choice is the Scandinavian, but if white trots out 2. d4, I follow it up with e6 and they end up having to deal with a french defense on the spot.


Another cute transposition is the way the From's Gambit can be changed into the King's Gambit after 1. P-KB4 P-K4 2. P-K4! There are a few people who never play Double King Pawn Openings who can get a bit rattled when forced into them. There's also the "Who's Gutsier" auction that can go on. "I'm going to gambit." "No, I'M going to gambit!" Is Black prepared to grab the gambit bull by the horns again by playing the Falkbeer? Not if he never plays Double King Pawn openings he isn't.

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