http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article..._of_reform.html

A nice article by Robert Samuelson, a Newsweek economist. He points out some myths on health care, notably that many of the uninsured are healthy people, young folk between 20 and 35 who don't need health insurance because they are quite healthy.

Morris' latest column is about how the Democrats can choose their method of suicide if they pass the bill.

http://www.vote.com/mmp_printerfriendly.php?id=1914

As we know, the party line about the bill has always been that people may hate it now, but they'll love it when they see it. This argument has always ignored the fact that they pay for it now, but see no benefit from it until 2013 or so. (i.e. "The 10-6 Dodge" mentioned in Ed's earlier article.

But Morris' point relates to the first one in Ed's article, "The Doc Fix Dodge". As you'll recall, this was:



So, according to Morris, if the bill passes, they can take their choice. Go ahead and cut Medicare as promised, and deal with angry seniors. Or (more likely) fail to cut Medicare and have the pretense of deficit reduction go out the window from the beginning. What to do?

Fred Barnes discusses his belief that if Obamacare is passed it will be the major political issue for a decade or more.

I don't think it takes too much observation to agree with his sense that republicans will surely try to repeal obamacare at the first opportunity--and Obama will veto any such legislation should it pass.

It also seems reasonable to predict that if passed Obamacare becomes THE issue in the 2012 presidential election. Toss in an economy that hasn't recovered yet and we could be looking at a Palin Whitehouse

I sincerely hope that the republicans take over one house of congress this fall and that everyone simmers down and finds a real health care reform plan. Unfortunately I feel about health care like Ed feels about education--lots of despair.

That depends. IF the Republicans take House or Senate or both as a direct result of this mess, (and by that time it will be completely clear that a) the bill was a huge deficit buster, and b) Health Care quality has already declined), and Obama makes things worse for the Democrats by playing the Lone Wolf resisting efforts to undo the damage, he might become the first President since (Who? Tyler?) to get kicked out of his own party.

But I wouldn't expect that to happen. More likely, he'd bow to the inevitable at that point (claiming that he was bowing to the public's wishes at long last) and go along with it. Remember that Obama's big weakness, which we observed even during the campaign, is an almost complete inability to say No to his friends. If his friends say don't fight it, he won't fight it. And whether that happens depends on which of his friends survive November. Greid probably won't, but Pelosi probably will (though whether she'll still be Majority Leader is another question).




That's what we need, another rookie President. Palin may yet have a valuable role to play, but that role is unlikely to be getting both parties to come to the table and play nice. Her role is pointing out the idiocies of one of the parties, and that's fine. We need more of that. But that's not the kind of person we want leading the country.




I'd go beyond that to hoping that never again does one party control House, White House and Senate simultaneously. That's the situation we've had for most of the 21st century, and the experience has been uniformly bad.


____________________
"Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember me from such safety films as Alice's Adventures through the Windshield Glass, and Lead Paint: Delicious But Deadly."

What I want to know is what happens if the major provision, that of forcing citizens to purchase products from a private company, is declared unconstitutional. A dozen or so State Attorney Generals are gearing up to try to have it declared thusly. If they succeed, what happens then? Is the whole bill out (and if not, what's left?)?

Go back far enough in the politics thread and you'll find me talking about splitting my vote--president I vote with my heart--whether my candidate is likely to win or not. For congress I vote for the party I expect to lose the presidential election. I really, really hate single party rule.

I wouldn't be surprised if a whole bunch of law suits follow passage of Obamacare.

I read a blog recently (not sure of the quality of the info, so I'd like to see it verified by a reliable source) that claimed that there was no mechanism for enforcing the fine for not purchasing insurance. So the gov't fines you for not having an insurance policy, but you simply refuse to pay and they toss up their hands.

I just love this thread. From Ed Yetman making an ass out of himself by misnamedropping Krylenko on the very first page - to the very last page - it is all great! I hope the ObamaCare fails miserably (and I am a happy camper so far). Americans deserve the 3rd world health care system they have now. Getting pissed about paying a tiny bit more when millions of your fellow citizens keep dying because they don't have access to health care - this is as American as apple pie. If Americans were to stop turning the cold shoulder while their beloved system does what amount to killing off the less fortunate around them - that would be like the French stopped drinking wine: there would be so much less reason for the rest of the world to hate them. I mean, it is kinda if Hitler adopted Hinduism and universal peace and love: it would take away from a perfectly good villain. And that can't possibly be a good thing. Let the poor Americans die: it is the American way! Down with Obama! They should concentrate on getting more republicans into the office so that they could do the reform that is really needed: cancel MedicAid and Medicare, give tax breaks to insurance companies and legalize more ways for the insurance companies to avoid giving treatment. That's the change that is needed.

Let Americans be Americans. If they had any compassion or humanity, they'd be Europeans.

I heard that three had already been filed. Idaho, and two others. I guess they don't believe in wasting time. And several others are amending their state constitutions to prohibit their citizens from being forced to purchase health insurance.

Which will probably all happen, because honestly, if they're only 5 or so votes short, I'm sure they'll pass it. If they can't bribe 5 Congressmen out of 200, then Congress is a lot more honest than I think it is.


If you'll recall, when I supported Obama over Hillary, I argued that one of her problems was an inability to adapt to changing circumstances. That she'd get fixed on a course, and just continue in a straight line until she crashed into a wall (the implication being that Obama wouldn't do that). I also argued that as a first term Senator, Obama would be less corrupted by the system than some of the long-termers. Both arguments are making me look stupid at this point. Obama lies as easily and often as people who have been in the Senate 20 years, and has proven completely incapable of course corrections as well. It kills me to say it, but I think we'd have done better with President Clinton II.

RE: despair. The price of maturity.

RE: President dumped by his own party: Franklin Pierce was the last one.

RE: Palin as president. She won't even win the primaries. But I thought Bush would lose as well.

RE: lack of fine enforcement. I've seen this several places, including the exact wording of the bill. It's true. There is no way to enforce the fine. It's voluntary.

RE: constitutionality of forced purchase of insurance. A very debatable proposition that has never been tested in court, as far as I know. Anyway, it is a stupid idea. Insurance companies make a 30 percent profit off their business, so that guarantees that at least 30 percent of all money spent will not go to providers, cutting down on the money available for health care.