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#153132 - 03/12/10 01:17 PM
Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4
[Re: Ed Yetman, III]
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Ninja
Registered: 01/14/03
Loc: A trailer park in Quebec
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I wonder how many games Tiviakov won with theoretical novelties. I think it is worth knowing; is he outplaying people who surprise him, or is he winning by surprising them? I don't think Tiviakov wins too many games with novelties. His opening repertoire, though eccentric for a higher-rated GM, is fairly consistent: 1. e4 with White, frequent 2. c3 Sicilians and Worrall Attack (6. Qe2) Ruys; Black vs. 1. e4 formerly the Dragon, recently supplanted by 3. Qd6 Scandinavian. I dunno what he plays vs. 1. d4 et al., but it's off thread topic...
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#153159 - 03/13/10 07:40 PM
Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4
[Re: Guy Kerr]
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Ninja
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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I would think that with 51 games there would be a fair number of novelties. Does chessgames track them the way Informator does?
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III YetmanBrothers.com
"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.
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#153162 - 03/13/10 07:59 PM
Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4
[Re: Ed Yetman, III]
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Ninja
Registered: 01/14/03
Loc: A trailer park in Quebec
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I don't think Chessgames tracks novelties. I've never seen any marked. If you wade through the kibitzes of individual games, some novelties are identified, but it's not worth the effort... For reference, you could check the Tiviakov Scandi summary page.
Edited by Guy Kerr (03/13/10 08:02 PM)
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#153167 - 03/13/10 11:21 PM
Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4
[Re: Guy Kerr]
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Ninja
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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Thanks for the link, Guy. Scandi--sounds like a girl with kinky underwear. Or some sort of clever household cleaning product.
Edited by Ed Yetman, III (03/13/10 11:23 PM)
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III YetmanBrothers.com
"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.
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#153198 - 03/15/10 10:51 AM
Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4
[Re: Petrosianic]
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Ninja
Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
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...I think of the French and Caro-Kann as being almost "Sister Openings". Both are geared towards getting an immediate, pawn-supported P-Q4 in. But the French secures the KN1-QR7 diagonal at the cost of locking in the QB, while the Caro-Kann keeps the Bishop free.
And in a sense, the Center Counter is another sister, or stepsister at least, to both the French and Caro-Kann. All three defenses have the goal of challenging White's KP with P-Q4. But the French and Caro-Kann both prepare the advance, while the Center Counter just plays it immediately, with no pawn support.
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#153200 - 03/15/10 10:56 AM
Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4
[Re: Petrosianic]
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Ninja
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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I would say the Caro-Kann and the Center Counter are more closely related, as they both liberate the queen's bishop. The French is more like a cousin, and one with a bad attitude. It says, "I'll take the bad bishop. Let's see what you can do about it, tough guy." It's more defiant than the other two, like a truck stop waitress with a cigarette and a pot of hot coffee held in a menacing way over your head.
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III YetmanBrothers.com
"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.
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#153201 - 03/15/10 12:15 PM
Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4
[Re: Ed Yetman, III]
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Ninja
Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
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Yeah, the French is more open-ended that way. If White plays it one way, Black's QP ends up exchanged for White's KP, the same as in the Caro-Kann and Center Counter. But if White plays it another way, both those pawns stay on the board, the center gets locked, and Black has his KB2 square safe from any attacks on the long diagonal, but also has a bad bishop.
Now, in the same sense, 1...P-K4 and 1...P-QB4 are sister openings also. Unlike the first three, they ignore White's KP, and set themselves the goal of challenging the Q5 square instead. And it seems like a lot of world champions have played one of those two moves, but not the first three. Euwe and Spassky (and even Fischer and Kramnik) almost always replied to P-K4 with with either P-K4 or P-QB4. The same is almost true of Anand, but he's slipped a few Caro-Kanns into the mix. Not very many, but enough for it to be considered a part of his repertoire, rather than just a surprise weapon. The main difference between them is that if White goes on to play P-Q4 (as he really wants to), after P-K4, both sides lose one of their center pawns. If White plays P-Q4 after Black's P-QB4, Black keeps both his center pawns after the exchange, but also has more space, since Black's two center pawns block his development a bit.
So, let's take those first 5 moves. White has played P-K4, and conventional wisdom dictates that he really wants to play P-Q4 as well. What does Black do about it? Three of the moves we looked at seek to stop him by challenging the K5 square. The other two seek to do it by challenging the Q5 square. The Pirc/Robatsch is another kettle of fish altogether. The first 5 all make some attempt to inhibit White's P-Q4, while the Pirc, in hypermodern fashion, just lets him go ahead and play it, and tries to shoot at the center from the wings.
At first glance, the Alekhine's Defense is similar to the French/Caro-Kann/Center Counter, in that it goes after White's KP. But not in the same way. It makes no effort to exchange the pawn off, at least not right away. The whole idea is to let White build his center, and then take shots at it. So, in that way, Alekhine's Defense is a lot closer to the Pirc than to the first three.
Finally, we have the Nimzovich Defense, which ends up the oddball again. What's the point behind it? In one sense, it's like P-K4 and P-QB4, in challenging the Q5 square. But it doesn't do it in any meaningful way, as White can just play 2. P-Q4 anyway. So, perhaps the point is to provide support for P-K4 on Move 2. (But why not just play it on Move 1?). Maybe the point is to get White to play P-Q5, chase the Knight to K2, seal the center, and use the Knight to support an eventual P-KB4 (as in the Old Indian?)? Or maybe after 3. PxP, to get White to chase the Knight around, like a mirror Alekhine, and build a center that will prove weak? I'm not sure, I just haven't seen enough of this opening to know what the heck Black is trying to do with it.
Anyway, the point of all this discussion is to try to change the question a bit. Rather than ask what's the best move, let's ask what's the best IDEA? After 1. P-K4, should Black's top priority be to challenge White's KP, or to try to challenge the Q5 square?
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#153210 - 03/15/10 05:26 PM
Re: Best defense to 1. P-K4
[Re: Petrosianic]
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Ninja
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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If you challenge the king pawn the tension rises, which leads to greater chances of an early liquidation; by delaying that, one gets more time to discover a blunder from one's opponent. Maybe that's why 1...P-K4 and 1...P-QB4 are so popular at the GM level.
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III YetmanBrothers.com
"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.
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