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#153192 - 03/15/10 08:51 AM
Re: Best Defense to 1. P-Q4
[Re: Guy Kerr]
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Ninja
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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I ssupect that the reason lies in the desire to keep the pawn structure intact. After 5. NPxB leaves White with a bit of a shot clog on the kingside, while 5. KPxB QxP leaves White with a very weak isolated queen's pawn.
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III YetmanBrothers.com
"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.
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#153202 - 03/15/10 12:41 PM
Re: Best Defense to 1. P-Q4
[Re: Ed Yetman, III]
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Ninja
Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
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In this discussion http://www.chessninja.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=153201#Post153201...we (or at least I) concluded that there were three basic categories of KP defenses. 1) Defenses that sought to challenge K5 and White's KP, 2) Defenses that sought to challenge Q5, and 3) Hypermodern defenses that challenged neither one immediately. There's not as much variation in the QP openings. The three most popular replies, 1...P-Q4, 1...N-KB3, and 1...P-KB4, all seek to do the same thing: challenge the K5 square. 1...P-Q4 is the QP equivalent of 1...P-K4, and the Dutch is the mirror image of the Sicilian. 1...N-KB3 is the mirror image of the Nimzovich Defense, except this time, the Knight actually does prevent the pawn from going to the 4th rank immediately. This is also why 1...N-KB3 is more popular than 1...P-Q4. Black can conceal his intentions longer. He can either choose to play it like a double QP opening, and continue trying to challenge the K5 square. Or he can play it like a hypermodern defense (King's Indian, et cetera), let White build the center, and then counter-attack it. After 1. P-Q4 N-KB3 2. P-QB4 P-K3 3. N-QB3, Black can either go for something more hypermodern, with B-N5, or he can transpose straight into the QGD with 3...P-Q4. But White was kept guessing longer than if he'd played 1...P-Q4 on the first move. But QP equivalents to the French/Caro-Kann/Center Counter are few. The only major QP opening geared around the idea of immediately challenging White's QP is the Benoni, and even that challenges it with a wing pawn, rather than a central one. Some lines in the King's and Old Indian are geared around trying to get ...P-K4 in, but not as early as move 2. (And I'm not counting the Englund, aka Garbage Gambit, with 1...P-K4 as a major opening).
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#153203 - 03/15/10 01:02 PM
Re: Best Defense to 1. P-Q4
[Re: Petrosianic]
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Ninja
Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
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Actually no. I'm forgetting the Budapest Defense, which, though not seen all that often, is a playable, legitimate opening (a lot more than the Englund Gambit, at least), and based on the idea of challenging White's central pawn with one of your own on Move 2. But the advance isn't pawn-supported (as in the French or Caro-Kann), or even piece-supported as in the Center Counter. Black ends up either gambitting the pawn outright, or recovering it with Knight gymnastics of the kind seen in the Alekhine or Nimzovich Defenses.
You do, every so often, in club play, see the QP mirror of the French, after 1. P-Q4 P-Q3 2. P-K4 P-K4. It's very rare, of course, since Black loses the castling privilege after 3. PxP PxP 4. QxQch. I think the idea behind it is either that Black is terrified of a higher rated player and desperate to get to an endgame even if it means incurring a few disadvantages along the way. Or Black is higher rated and confident of being able to outplay his opponent in the ending. I had a higher-rated player play it against me in Germany once (it ended up a draw), and have seen it lots of times in blitz games.
The QP equivalent of the Caro is unheard of. After 1. P-Q4 P-KB3 2. P-K4 P-K4, would follow 3. PxP PxP 4. Q-R5ch. It's like a Damiano, except that White doesn't even have to give up a piece for his fun. I would name that opening the Caro-Kan't.
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#153209 - 03/15/10 05:23 PM
Re: Best Defense to 1. P-Q4
[Re: Petrosianic]
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Ninja
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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I think the lesser variety of the queen's pawn opening is partly the result of the asymmetry of the board, and partly the result of depth perception. As you look a few moves later one sees more variety, e.g. 1...N-KB3, 2...P-KN3 leads to King's Indian, Gruenfeld and Benoni lines, while 2...P-K3 can lead to Queen's Gambits and Benoni lines. There a defense I've always wanted to play (the Manhattan Defense) but it's hard to get the move order to happen.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the real choices in the queen's pawn defenses come later than they do in the king's pawn defenses.
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III YetmanBrothers.com
"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.
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#153211 - 03/15/10 05:49 PM
Re: Best Defense to 1. P-Q4
[Re: Ed Yetman, III]
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Ninja
Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
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I guess what I'm trying to say is that the real choices in the queen's pawn defenses come later than they do in the king's pawn defenses. That's because White (generally) wants to advance both central pawns two squares. But P-K4 is the harder of the two to play, since it hasn't got the Queen behind it. So it's easier to play P-Q4 after having played P-K4 than the other way around.
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#153282 - 03/18/10 11:06 PM
Re: Best Defense to 1. P-Q4
[Re: M Winther]
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Ninja
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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The advance of the two center pawns is a desiderata of both sides, but White's extra tempo allows him to get there first. Yet given the weakness of the king's pawn, perhaps that isn't a good thing.
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III YetmanBrothers.com
"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.
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#156274 - 07/23/10 03:44 PM
Re: Best Defense to 1. P-Q4
[Re: Guy Kerr]
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Rook
Registered: 02/11/06
Loc: Outer-haven
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One oddball line that currently has me intrigue is 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 e5!?!? Mainly, I am trying to find a the best moves for white and black, since I am a 1.d4 player and also play the slav as black.
_________________________
Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're an asshole.
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#156284 - 07/24/10 10:15 PM
Re: Best Defense to 1. P-Q4
[Re: Guy Kerr]
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Ninja
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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How's about posting the game, Guy?
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III YetmanBrothers.com
"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.
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