Hello PA--What are you trying to say here? Are you saying that there are things beyond human senses that might be detectable by some future human?

No, you explicitly state that you do not need the undetectable to make your case. But what is your case? You go right back to claiming that new things can be detected when a new creature evolves.

You seem to be confusing detection with comprehension. There are certainly parts of the natural world that are not yet understood by humans and we may need to wait for more advanced brains to figure some of them out, but that doesn't mean they are beyond detection.




I don't think I made that claim.



What?

Proofs of the supernatural? If you can prove it, it isn't supernatural. We may not fully understand gravity, but there is ample proof that it exists and so we treat is as part of the natural world.

How do you prove the existence of the supernatural? You don't.

Belief in the supernatural is based on faith, not evidence.



This is not evidence, this is faith. By what proof was the son's death not natural? What, specifically, was the prophet's prediction? We have modern prophets who make lots of vague predictions and then fit events to those predictions after the fact. How do you know that wasn't the case here?

You don't. But you have faith.

Agreed. Not really interested in a full history--just a better understanding so I can better explain why it is anti-scientific.

Ah, I see. I'll try to put something together. Something mercifully short. Maybe GCube will do it for us. He's much more up on this stuff than I am.

Ah, spock, indeed, your quote above is spoken like the truly natural man that you are!

Anyway, spock, look around you and see, because every truly saved, born-again believer in the Lord Jesus Christ that you see and know is visible evidence of the supernatural power of Almighty God himself.

ONLY the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit of Almighty God was able to change my wicked, un-saved, evil and sinful heart that wanted very little to do with God and the things of God, and, that Holy Spirit, (back in the year 1982), changed my sinful human heart and my sinful human affections over to a heart that LOVES God and the things of God!

Am I now perfect?

NO, **FAR FROM IT!!**

However, I now DO have the peace of God in my heart that this world can NOT give, and, I also have the **sure hope** of an eternal home in Heaven where I will live **forever** in eternal glory and bliss with my wonderful Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Indeed, spock, when it comes to *personally* proving to your self that the supernatural DOES really exist, well, **believing IS seeing indeed** that the supernatural, all-powerful God of the universe DOES really and truly exist!!


Chess Fan

Fortunately, there's an app to avoid those embarrassing failed predictions--get your Rapture Detector here.

Now if we could just get a Lindsey app that would light up whenever Lindsey uttered something true...nah, that'd never work...people would think the app was on the fritz--e.g. "why isn't my app lighting up--the man has been speaking for an hour now?"

http://www.realclearreligion.org/articles/2011/05/23/why_we_love_the_apocalypse_106257.html

This is a very good analysis of the mindset of apocalyptians.

Thank you Ken and Ed; funny and interesting stuff (in that order). I agree that we all seek meaning in and explanation for the often random-seeming events of life, it's just so very sad when people take solace in the pronouncements of such obviously misguided people. Camping's already had one incorrect prediction!

But, hold the front page: Harold Camping has not given up! Apparently he's now saying that the world was indeed judged on Saturday, it's just that we won't see anything happen until October this year. According to the article I just linked to:

The rapture happened, it will just be 5 months before the fireball arrives....or, at least, that's the latest from Camping on this morning's news.

CF--you are confusing your personal experience with evidence, they are not the same. To be evidence your internal experiences would need to be available for public inspection, they are not.

Your personal experience is just that, personal experience. No matter how sincerely you believe that you were saved by God that is not evidence--it is faith. Those who accept your personal experience as "evidence" are doing so based on faith, not evidentiary quality.

Spock, spock, spock, you are quite funny!

There are a number of people who knew me *BEFORE* I was saved at the age of 25, who also know me now that I am saved, (and have been saved now for coming up on 29 years now.)

If you would talk to some of these people and ask them the difference in me from BEFORE my salvation to now, AFTER my salvation, they could tell you the **evidence** that they can plainly see in my **radically changed life** now that I am a saved, born-again believer in my Lord Jesus Christ.


Chess Fan

Anything could have led to your change in behavior; a change in brain chemistry brought on by aging, for example. Furthermore, we have only your word on any of this. None of that is evidence--just another unsubstantiated claim.