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#159482 - 05/13/11 07:27 PM
Re: World Religions
[Re: PircAlert]
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Ninja
Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
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PircAlert, this is what is known as the pot calling the kettle black! Ed indeed holds certain things to be true because of his philosophy training but you (and I) hold other things to be true because of your (our) Christian faith! We just can't expect people to accept that what we believe to be true really is true simply because the Bible says so. No, no, no. You simply present the truth. Whether people accept it or not is a different issue. It is upto them! For example, you are in a top floor of the building. I say don't walk over and cross the edge because gravitation pull is there and you will fall down and hurt. Belief is upto you! You see my point? Because "you know". "A child knows". May be you are not all that smart to explain it, but you are smart enough to have experienced it to avoid it!
_________________________
Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)
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#159483 - 05/13/11 07:42 PM
Re: World Religions
[Re: PircAlert]
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King
Registered: 12/02/06
Loc: Southampton, England
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Not the same thing. Just about everyone accepts that gravity will cause us to fall if we climb out of a window, and we can check by throwing something out of the window. It's much harder to check most of the claims in the Bible. All we can do, in my opinion, is explain what we believe, why we believe it and why it would be good for others to follow Jesus too.
_________________________
I blog about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and anything else that interests me. Have a read if you're interested too!
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#159484 - 05/13/11 07:43 PM
Re: World Religions
[Re: PircAlert]
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Ninja
Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
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You are still incoherent, PA. The Old Testament demands animal sacrfice; the New Testament denies it. Your sophistry to the contrary does not alter that fact. Furthermore, the Old Testament demands obedience to the law; the New Testament proclaims freedom from the law. The Old Testament defines God as a unity with one person; the New Testament defines God as a unity of three persons (please, no claims to the contrary. I know what is fact here). There are a lot of differences between the two Testaments; your claim that "Biblical truth is unchanging" is transparently false.
As for your claim that "without bloodshed there is no remission of sin" I suggest you read the story of David and Bathesheba in Samuel. There God forgives the sin of David (adultery) even though there are no sacrifices made. There are other examples as well, e.g. Cain and Abel. Ed, I don't know why you say I am incoherent. I said "without bloodshed there is no remission of sin" as a Bible truth. Animal blood is a blood. So it doesn't violate what I claimed as the Bible truth. Why do you think people were stoned to death? A human blood was shed to remove sin from among people. In David & Bathsheba, David not only did adultery, he committed murder. David killed Uriah, not the battle. Do you know that? And do you not know the first child was killed by God? David did pay the price.
_________________________
Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)
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#159485 - 05/13/11 08:05 PM
Re: World Religions
[Re: PircAlert]
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Ninja
Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
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Not the same thing. Just about everyone accepts that gravity will cause us to fall if we climb out of a window, and we can check by throwing something out of the window. It's much harder to check most of the claims in the Bible. The Bible does not say so, Kevin. Mark 16:17, "And these signs shall follow them that believe. In my name...".
_________________________
Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)
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#159486 - 05/13/11 08:17 PM
Re: World Religions
[Re: PircAlert]
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Ninja
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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Kevin, speaking with PA is pointless. Look at his comments about stoning people to death. He doesn't realize that he just claimed that judicial acts are in fact forms of human sacrifice.
Do you, Kevin, believe that Christianity involves human sacrifice?
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III YetmanBrothers.com
"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.
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#159487 - 05/13/11 08:19 PM
Re: World Religions
[Re: PircAlert]
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King
Registered: 12/02/06
Loc: Southampton, England
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It's much harder to check most of the claims in the Bible. The Bible does not say so, Kevin. Mark 16:17, "And these signs shall follow them that believe. In my name...". Mark 16:17-18These miraculous signs will accompany those who believe: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages. They will be able to handle snakes with safety, and if they drink anything poisonous, it won’t hurt them. They will be able to place their hands on the sick, and they will be healed. This passage sets the bar very high, doesn't it? I mean, do you cast out many demons in Jesus' name and drink poison without it harming you? If not, then according to Jesus' statement here, you don't really believe in him. I wonder what we Christians should make of this statement... But getting back to my main point, we can't easily check most of what the Bible says in the way that we can check the effect of gravity. Surely you'd agree with that?
_________________________
I blog about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and anything else that interests me. Have a read if you're interested too!
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#159488 - 05/13/11 08:25 PM
Re: World Religions
[Re: South Coast Kevin]
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Ninja
Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
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I mean, you are not going to test God. But if you are put in a situation, I believe God is more than powerful to show his power!
Yes I agree with your point because we are not believing enough.
_________________________
Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)
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#159489 - 05/13/11 08:42 PM
Re: World Religions
[Re: PircAlert]
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Ninja
Registered: 12/08/04
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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Kevin, there are pentecostal churches in the American South that take the passage from Mark literally. They handle rattlesnakes during their services, and a few even drink strychnine.
Of course, this proves nothing. Secular people handle poisonous snakes all the time without harm, while snake handlers in the South die every so often from snake bite. And the strychnine drinkers? It is possible, as I understand it, to drink liquid strychnine and suffer no ill effects. It is worth noting that none of these people drink things like sulfuric acid.
So much for Biblical truth.
_________________________
Ed Yetman, III YetmanBrothers.com
"I will not be pushed, passed, isolated, blockaded, doubled, undoubled, or promoted!"--The Pawn.
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#159490 - 05/13/11 08:57 PM
Re: World Religions
[Re: Ed Yetman, III]
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King
Registered: 12/02/06
Loc: Southampton, England
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Yeah, I knew there were some Christian groups that put God to the test by deliberately handling poisonous snakes. Stupid literalism. My reading of this passage is that, as PircAlert said, God will do wonderful things among those who follow him; not least of which is that people will be convinced that Jesus is real because of the love within the Christian community. Two relevant passages: John 13:34-35: So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples. 1 Cor 13:1-3: If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing.
_________________________
I blog about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and anything else that interests me. Have a read if you're interested too!
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#159496 - 05/14/11 09:31 AM
Re: World Religions
[Re: Ed Yetman, III]
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Ninja
Registered: 06/02/03
Loc: South Dakota, USA
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Postmodernism tends to be a blanket denial of the existence of authority. Ahh, yes, that does make more sense.
_________________________
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? --John Maynard Keynes
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