Oh yes, I'm aware of the words of Augustine that you're referring to - from my blog

My favorite Augustine quote is "All men wish to be happy, yet live in a way that makes happiness impossible."

His discussion on time in Civitas Dei is unsurpassed.

Kevin, there was a link you put up here, a koine quote that began with psyche and contained the word agape I wanted to use it to illustrated the translation problem. Now I can't find it. Can you repost it?

Ed, was it this post of mine that you were thinking of?



Hi PircAlert, do you mean this sentence in particular?

Well, the Greek word translated 'love' is agape, which if I remember rightly is one of those words that Jesus rather redefined the use of. So we have to look at the Gospels to see what Jesus meant by agape, for example:


(From John 15:13 and Matthew 5:43-44.)

I checked here (love that website!) and the word translated 'love' is indeed agape in both these passages. So, going back to the 1 Corinthians 13 verse, it's surely possible to do remarkable good deeds from an attitude of selfishness (at least for a time). I can give all my material possessions away but if I'm doing so because, for example, I think it will make people respect and admire me, then 'I would have gained nothing'. As Jesus put it, I'll have had my reward already - with the admiration that I probably would indeed get from people.

No, everything we do should be motivated by love. That is the Christian's goal; to be so full of selfless love and to be so transformed by God's power that we naturally, instinctively, effortlessly (I think...) do the right thing in all circumstances. Love is all.

No, it is not. I can't find it. I'll try again.

It was an exact link to an interlinear text, not the general text you have above.

Chess Fan, is there anything specific you'd like to discuss about this article? If there is, then I'm tempted to leave it up but otherwise I think I'll be deleting it as it is a very long quotation. If you want to re-post with a shorter excerpt or two from the article then go ahead, and I'll delete your first message for you.

Kevin, please do something. Posting such huge articles, when a link will suffice, is too much. It is one thing to write a long article in one's own words, but to cut-and-paste is excessive. It is just a form of propaganda.

Chess Fan, I think 36 hours is plenty of warning so I've deleted your long quotation about Saddleback Church and the emerging church movement. The offer above still stands, though; if you want to discuss something specific from the article then please do post a short excerpt or two with a comment of your own to get the conversation started.

Came across this image. Sad that someone had to make this image as it means the message of love has been lost to some who call themselves Christians; and it shows that people see Christianity as being a religion of intolerance, bigotry and hatred. Still amusing but with an important message.

I think many people (including many Christians) also see Christianity as a religion of doctrinal purity, i.e. you have to be of a certain standard to take part in church stuff. Funny how Jesus spent so much of his time socialising with the marginalised people of his era, and explicitly taught against favouring those whom society deems to be superior.