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#163014 - 06/19/12 08:41 PM Re: Tal Memorial 2012 - Prediction contest [Re: PircAlert]
PircAlert Moderator Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
Congrats to winners Akselborg and to our surprise entry Petro on his first contest??!!!
_________________________
Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)

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#163031 - 06/21/12 02:51 AM Re: Tal Memorial 2012 - Prediction contest [Re: PircAlert]
inky. Offline
Ninja

Registered: 02/05/03
Loc: St. Croix, US Virgin Islands
I know I'm tardy, but I add my congrats to Akselborg and Petrosianic for winning this Ninja Prediction Contest. clap

PA, I do love Masha. She is beautiful like her mom and has that 'killer look' like her dad. She is just a tad younger than my youngest granddaughter eek


photo by Peter Doggers - a really great photographer!
_________________________
Ljubomir and Fabiano - my guys!

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#163049 - 06/22/12 06:14 PM Re: Tal Memorial 2012 - Prediction contest [Re: inky.]
PircAlert Moderator Offline
Ninja

Registered: 08/01/04
Loc: USA
inky, she is charming and gotto be smart as his father is smart, and most importantly the look you best described it! smile Will be away for a week so later.
_________________________
Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men (read world champions!)

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#163061 - 06/26/12 04:16 PM Re: Tal Memorial 2012 - Prediction contest [Re: PircAlert]
Petrosianic Online   happy
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
Speaking of Tal, I'm doing something I've dreaded doing for a while, but finally decided to do anyway: Taking all the games from Selected Chess Games of Mikhail Tal, and running them through a full analysis in Fritz. They are great games, but I'm seeing a disturbing number of ?? moves on the winner's side already. I can hardly wait to compare this analysis with the stuff in the book.

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#163062 - 06/26/12 05:59 PM Re: Tal Memorial 2012 - Prediction contest [Re: Petrosianic]
proloy Online   content
Ninja

Registered: 03/20/03
Loc: Hyderabad
Originally Posted By: Petrosianic
running them through a full analysis in Fritz. They are great games, but I'm seeing a disturbing number of ?? moves on the winner's side already.


The moves should be evaluated against the backdrop of the clock situations of both the players, as well as the rating differences. Let's see if even Fritz refutes them in the time available during the game. Even Tal may never have played them if he had the privilege of doing overnight analysis, even if left to his own resources, or against a known stronger player.
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The fellow who thinks he knows it all is especially annoying to those of us who do.

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#163063 - 06/26/12 10:50 PM Re: Tal Memorial 2012 - Prediction contest [Re: Petrosianic]
Quasimodo Online   content
King

Registered: 04/29/03
Originally Posted By: Petrosianic
Speaking of Tal, I'm doing something I've dreaded doing for a while, but finally decided to do anyway: Taking all the games from Selected Chess Games of Mikhail Tal, and running them through a full analysis in Fritz. They are great games, but I'm seeing a disturbing number of ?? moves on the winner's side already. I can hardly wait to compare this analysis with the stuff in the book.


That's why I think computers are just destroying chess. There is this sense of "absolute truth" that computer analysis brings to the game. Now everyone fires up their computer and goes "They were flawed ... "

It's kind of like the effect photography had on painting.

It's not a comment about you Petro - you have a deep interest in chess, you are a great fan and amazingly knowledgeable and appreciative of the history of the game. It's more of a general whining about the philosophy/attitude towards judging a game. Is it a game or a science? If it is a game then there must be an element of gamesmanship. If it is a "science" - then why do we even have matches and tournaments?

Just thinking out loud. I didn't even mention boxing

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#163064 - 06/27/12 08:24 AM Re: Tal Memorial 2012 - Prediction contest [Re: Quasimodo]
Petrosianic Online   happy
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
Originally Posted By: Quasimodo
Now everyone fires up their computer and goes "They were flawed ... "

Yeah, but even in Tal's lifetime, this was known. For example:

Quote:
Petrosian returned from Yugoslavia, his head filled with Tal's play. The new challenger had given him much to think about. For instance, in two games with Smyslov, Tal beyond all shadow of doubt incorrectly sacrificed pieces. One of these games Tal won, the other ended in a draw. 1½ points from two lost games! By sacrificing these pieces Tal created, admittedly at great risk to himself, positions where everything was 'hanging*, where threats blossomed now on this part of the board, now that; positions which Smyslov did not enjoy playing in.


The books just don't emphasize the negative part. In a book about Tal, the author isn't going to say "Tal was lost here, but here's how he gets out of it", even if the best players knew it at the time. Even Tal himself said that the difference between Lasker and himself is that while people said Lasker was lost in about half of his games, that Tal was lost in all of his.
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"I brought the Atom Bomb. I think it's a good time to use it." -- Dr. Richard Gordon, King Dinosaur

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#163065 - 06/27/12 02:10 PM Re: Tal Memorial 2012 - Prediction contest [Re: Petrosianic]
Petrosianic Online   happy
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
So I'm ambivalent on the whole computer thing. As a spectator, you don't want to know how the trick is done, but as a player, if Tal wins with unsound attacks, you want to learn how to meet those kind of attacks if you play against them yourself.

This gives me an idea for a thread called Tal's Unsound Attacks, featuring games where he played unsound attacks that worked, and figure out why they worked. The quote above tries to explain how it worked on Smyslov by creating certain types of positions that he didn't play at 100% in. Geller racked up his score against Fischer in a similar way.
_________________________
"I brought the Atom Bomb. I think it's a good time to use it." -- Dr. Richard Gordon, King Dinosaur

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#163083 - 06/29/12 11:06 AM Re: Tal Memorial 2012 - Prediction contest [Re: Petrosianic]
Petrosianic Online   happy
Ninja

Registered: 08/31/04
Loc: Doo-Wah-Diddy, Mississippi
What's really funny about Fritz analysis is the way they try to throw in conversational-sounding annotations to games, but they keep using the same phrases over and over again. "Doesn't get the bull off the ice". "Doesn't get the cat out of the tree". Et cetera.

I'm just having Fritz annotate the famous Round 27 Fischer-Tal game, the one where Tal endured the Fischer attack and came back to win. Of Fischer's move 45. P-QR3?, Fritz gives one of its 'stock' annotations: "White has lost his nerve... understandable when you consider his position.", which is just hilarious because of its one-size-fits-all nature. What does a computer know about Fischer's nerves anyway?

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#163090 - 07/01/12 08:04 AM Re: Tal Memorial 2012 - Prediction contest [Re: Petrosianic]
supergrobi Offline
Ninja

Registered: 12/06/02
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
Reminds me of the Emacs Psychotherapist.
(Emacs is a text editor, if you don't know it.)

I am the psychotherapist. Please, describe your problems. Each time you are finished talking, type RET twice.

I just wonder why I visited the Chess Ninja site again

Can you elaborate on that?

Not really

Why do you say?

It doesn't make much sense to do so

Is it because of your plans that you say?

...

You get the idea.

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