Well, you didn't hear it here first, but even I have my standards. They're around here somewhere. As you know by now, Topalov's manager, Silvio "Stopwatch" Danailov has been watching a lot of video lately, and it's not his Simpson's DVD set. He has issued a formal complaint about Kramnik's lack of potty training and, drumroll please, says that if his concerns about Kramnik's suspicious bladder aren't addressed by 10am tomorrow "we would seriously reconsider the participation of the World Champion Veselin Topalov in this match."
The conspiracy theories have already grown their own conspiracy theories, of course. You guys have really outdone yourselves. E.g.: Topalov wants to bail out of the match because he's down 3-1 and he's looking for an excuse... Kramnik's illness has rendered him incontinent... Kramnik often comes out of the bathroom to make moves that were also recommended by computers... Alexander Zhukov, Deputy Prime Minister of Russia and President of the Russian chess federation, is desperate to have a Russian champ again and KGB cronies and Ilyumzhinov are sending codes messages through the plumbing... Danailov has way too much time on his hands... Kramnik just happens to be someone who does his best thinking in the can... How about the old classic, all of the above? And someone tell ChessBase that Fritz is on the Fritz, or did Kramnik not come out of the bathroom before blundering into a mate in the second game?
The added irony is that Topalov has been the one with rumors of remote assistance swirling around him since San Luis. Not a month goes by that I don't receive a very earnest explanation of how he and Cheparinov have set up a signalling system, or use sock transmitters. Now we get a minute by minute breakdown of Kramnik's trips to the bathroom, which number up to 50 according to Danailov. There are mating pandas that don't get this sort of scrutiny. Okay, I admit that it's pretty damn weird to wander in and out of the rest area and bathroom constantly during a world championship match.
As you could have guessed, this has hit the mainstream (stream, get it?) news in a hurry. Nothing like a good piece of toilet humor to get the wires burning. Although I seriously doubt this was Topalov's initiative, who would you rather have as a unified champion, a sore loser looking for a distraction or one who isn't house broken? Oh the humanity. My real worry is that Topalov will win the complaint and have to wear rubber boots to the board for the rest of the match. And who was just asking me when I would every get to use the 'kidneys' tag again? Triumph!
What FIDE needs to do now is for blueberry yoghurt be served during each game, mirrored glasses be deemed compulsory eyeware for both contestants, the playing hall temperature massively lowered to freezing temperatures (so there'll be massive leg shaking), install radioactive emitters in the lights and we'll have a classic WCC tournament.
You hit on the obvious reply: but Kramnik is NOT making the best moves, so what's with the complaint? I would certainly hope that the Topalov team (and the player himself) should be spending their time thinking about their opponent's chessplay rather than a) is Kramnik cheating, b) should they make a complaint, etc.
I imagine that there is a good chance they do NOT think Kramnik is cheating, but are using the complaint as a psychological weapon. Now Kramnik's toilet behaviour is all over the press, he may be on the defensive to explain his actions - for goodness sake, the NY Times is speculating about his pee rate! I think the Topalov team is trying to rattle their opponent. Is that a totally ridiculous notion?
a true world champion should be able to hold it.
Not to dash cold water on anything, but given that the website linked to the post by "Alexei Shirov" seems not to exist (or not in the way one might imagine), should we assume that this wasn't in fact the real Alexei Shirov posting?...
There seems to be some disagreement about what is being charged: Does Kramnik make 50 trips per game, or has he made a total of 50 trips so far (i.e. about 12 per game)?
Silvio "Stopwatch" Danailov
Mig thanks for the great laugh!
sore loser he is that topalov. what can you expect from guy who blieves in witch-doctors. piss off topa, and piss (meant to say peace) out. where is howard dean when you need him. arrrrrrrrrrrgh!!!
remember my undergrad years. going to the rest room like 5 times within the hour when taking tests. and i did not have cheatsh**s in the restroom either. just butterflies in my stomach because of nervousness.
I have to say, Kramnik's Bxf8 in game 2 did resemble something you might see in the bathroom if one was not civilized enough to flush. Topalov should have tipped the attendant and played Rxg4+.
Kramnik should just issue a press release saying that he spents time in the bathroom because he prefers what he sees there to seeing Danailov's face in the auditorium, and be done with it. No other explanation is required.
Anyone remembers the 1977 candidates final between Kortchnoi and Spassky ? The last 10 games or something were played on an empty stage, the audience would only catch a glimpse of each player as he exited his private room, made his move and went straight back in. Each player apparently suspected the other of exerting some parasychological influence - much better stuff than today's trite accusations. Those were the days ...
Out of the dozens of comments on this topic, only one individual ridicules Kramnik:
--"damn weird"
--"Topalov...will have to wear rubber boots..."
--"lack of potty training"
--"isn't house-broken"
(doesn't lack of potty training/house-breaking mean NOT going to the toilet?)
And only one individual attempts to shield Topalov from responsibility:
--"...I seriously doubt this was Topalov's initiative..."
That's stupid even by your standards, koster. I'm making fun of the entire idiotic thing. It's funny. They are jokes. Christ, just when I thought you were going to start being almost normal.
Interesting that nobody so far is giving this an objective view... Doesn't anyone else agree that Kramnik's behavior seems suspicious? I'd bet if any one of your opponents tried this during one of your games and was beating you, that you'd be more than a little upset/suspicious...
Noyb, if you found out that a large number of your opponents moves either a) missed wins or b) were outright blunders, would you really accuse him of cheating? It's like if someone takes a test and answers a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a and the person behind them copies this, I think the score they'll ge ton the test should be sufficient along with the failure in life. However, I think the qualiity of Topalov's moves in San Luis would certainly suggest something to be scruitinized a little more, he played very few mistakes during that tournament.
Mig, can you imagine in say, the NBA finals, a team being down 0-3 and then issuing a press release saying that the series is fixed by the league and the officials and unless they pick officials of our liking, we will walk out of the series and screw you all ?
When Mark Cuban said one-tenth of the above after they lost game #1 to the Spurs, they hit him with a 200K fine to go along with the 1.5 mill he had already paid before. And Danailov's insinuation in the press release is perfectly clear - 'they' have left a window of opportunity open for Kramnik to cheat in spite of our warnings, and it seems like he is making use of it by his suspicious behavior, and unless everything is in order as we perceive it, we're out of here.
Now would it be too much if FIDE tommorow send Danailov packing and fined Topalov half of the price that he is supposed to collect - win or lose - from the cheating organization that stages the match ? What would Euwe or Olafsson have done when faced by such an ultimatum in a similar case ( admittedly, Euwe was quite conciliatory in his dealings with the players but was never a target of a personal similar insinuation I suppose ). What would you have done ?
Frankly, I doubt Topalov had anything to do with this, and I am not exactly a Topalov fan, given how disrespectful he was to Kramnik in the past year. I bet it is a Danailov initiative. It is hard to imagine Topalov watching the Kramnik footage or compiling press release. But then again, it is hard to imagine that the press release was released without Topalov's knowledge. Or is it possible that Topalov and Kramnik are so well isolated by their team from outside contact that neither is/will be aware of things such as this press release during the match?
But, like someone mentioned in chesspro.ru Russian forum - it is not against the rules to go into bathroom as much as one wants. If that annoys Topalov's team so much, then there is even more reason for Kramnik to do it.
Rooms are checked by the officials before the game and players are searched, so cheating is hardly possible. Also, it is doubtful that someone like Kramnik would ruin his legacy by cheating.
I am against violence, but I do think someone should punch Danailov in the face.
It matters not one whit whether Topalov has anything directly to do with this- he chooses to have Danailov represent him. I used to admire Topalov a lot, but after Danailov came on the scene I lost most of my respect for Topalov as a person (not as a chessplayer).
On the other hand, perhaps Danailov is trying to raise public interest towards the match? (MainSTREAM - hahaha) And what else would we talk about on the off day?
And I guess this is one of these bizarre things that blogs like this one were made for. I don't remember people posting this many comments in Daily Dirt blog entries before (as in game 4 blog entry).
If Kramnik were playing like a computer it might be suspicious. As it is, barring explanation and taking Stopwatch's figures as remotely accurate, it's just weird. If he had a medical problem he would likely have advised the organizers about it to avoid such thoughts. As you said, if my opponent were doing this at an open I would definitely talk to an arbiter. But this is a world championship and you should have a lot better evidence than this before launching a public assault. That's the most ridiculous thing about this. If it were anything but a distraction campaign it should have been handled there. He doesn't say if the committee or anyone responded to their first complaint.
Vulgar, mediocre, insulting... This is the degree zero... Poor Topalov... A real champ fights back when injured, but what he is now showing is low, mean, pityful, dishonest...
Let them play stark naked in a darkened room blindfolded and ear-muffed.
Sure it's humorous. But most everyone else found the humor in the absurdity of Topalov's accusations. Or else they were
--speculating about Topalov's motives,
--outraged at Topalov's conduct,
--concerned that the rest room visits were associated with Kramnik's health problems
But you're right. There are probably many people who share your notion that when a player in the midst of a world chess championship is accused of cheating, it's funny to joke about him peeing on himself.
And there are probably many people, as well, who agree with your suggestion that Topalov is not altogether responsible for these charges.
One should not pooh pooh these accusations.
They are playing in Russian territory (strange of Topalov to agree to the venue anyway), and the alleged behavior is more than slightly strange:
>
If there had been prior, confidential attempts to resolve this "situation" the open letter from Danailov would have commenced:
"Our efforts to resolve this matter confidentially having failed, we had no choice but to..."
Kramnik may have "provoked" it:
Yesterday, Topa had white and needed to show something. Tried his best with his home prep delivered at blazing speed. But Vlady wanted to go home early to watch football, so he halted it...
They must have figured there's no way they could make it over the board! :D
It's like being 0-3 down at halftime in a World Cup final, having scored 3 own goals and missed both penalties that were awarded to you, but then threatening to walk out of the second half because your coach spotted numerous occasions where the opponents seemed to have a friendly chat and wings with the referee, a fact which is not illegal but is nevertheless highly suspicious and merits investigation.
Poor chess. After so many years we at last get to have a unification match to help somehow create a structure and promote the sport, and at 1/3 of the distance one of the parties already threatens to quit because he suspects foul play based upon his opponents pissing irregularities ... Talking about professionalism. If he really has the balls to walk the walk, let him do so but without then claiming his guaranteed 500000 which he has perhaps already partly pocketed. Shame on him, Topalov, for being so shortsighted and frankly stupid to think that the Danailovs are the way to go in today's sports world.
My new guess is that this is a try ti fight Kramnik back in such a usual for Mr.Danailov manner. Here is my may interpretation of day 4:
- Topa shows a novelty.
- Kramniks makes a draw easily.
And now straight to the point: during the post-game press-conference Kramnik said that during the game he was more concerned about the soccer Campions League games played that day, and he wanted to finish the game in 2 hours to go watch TV, but Topalov was willing to play, so played he.
He was showing so much confidence in his prevalence over Topalov, that Silvio found no better way but publically accuse him of cheating, not pissing off, let's make it clear.
Well, I misspelled so much in the last post, it's time to visit my rest room ;-)
See ya tomorrow!
Danailov would have sold his children for 100 dollars, there is no chance he is walking away from a hefty percentage of the 500000 that Topalov earns for losing this.
He knows that Kramnik cannot offer anything like an 'explanation' for the 'accusation' without making the matter - and him - looking more ridiculous, and that the spineless and clueless FIDE will let the matter drop without any action harder than perhaps slapping his wrist.
And the intention is clear : if only Kramnik becomes a little bit flustered, feels heart or angered by his opponent, even just a bit more nervous or tired by the whole exposure of his toilet habits to the international press, he might just become a little more prone to take risks in an attempt to score victories against Topalov instead of just waiting for his opponent to cross the line - as it happened until now. And this is Topy's only practical chance now, given what we know of their history and of their form in this match.
It's just another version of the Danailov gambit. Sacrifice the image of the world championship match and all dignity for the - presumably - greater fee he will receive if Topy wins the match, plus all other future income as manager of the Unified World Champion.
I read in an article once that Kramnik has a masterbation problem. He may be just jerking the nerves out between moves.... if I was Topa, I would use a tissue when recapturing!!
In this age of steroids and computers, it seems like any exceptional performance by a competitor will forever be met with suspicion and derision rather than praise and applause. Participants are now forced to prove a negative in order to maintain their reputation, which is a very sad state of affairs. This is not to say that all deniers of accusations are innocent, of course.
As far as Kramnik’s blunders proving that he is not using computer assistance, I say it is a piece of evidence but by no means conclusive. We are sort of in the ‘second-wave’ of how a participant might go about cheating with a computer. In the first wave, it was the brute-force attempt to access a computer secretly and play its moves over the board. This was successful for a short while, until the practice of being suspicious of long absences and running a score sheet through an engine to see how many corresponding moves match became a norm. So now we are in the next stage – either using the computer for just a few key moves, or purposefully allowing a amateur blunder loss in one game in order to clear all suspicion for the next 6-8 games. Any permutation of a mixed strategy of computer use and “camouflage plays” to cover such use is logical, much like what blackjack card counters do to mask their abilities against the casino. Whatever methods the next batch of cheaters use, it will not be as unsophisticated as we might expect from history.
As for this specific case, I’m very doubtful that the reason Kramnik is visiting his rest room and private bathroom so much is because of cheating. This match is just too scrutinized and the cost of being caught (pretty much banishment / severe shunning / destroyed career) is too high. Beyond this match, these players need to maintain their reputations for the invite-only driven tournaments of the future. It is also too obvious if Kramnik is hiding after every move and getting a signal somehow. That presents 50+ chances of being caught per game. Frankly, this pattern of ducking in and out of a private bathroom reminds me more of drug abuser’s behavior more than anything else, particularly cocaine users. I would suspect this before I would suspect an elaborate conspiracy including FIDE/Russian agents/others, but most of all I would suspect neither.
I don’t think we will ever see another chess match without the spectre of computer cheating hanging over it, real or imagined. It’s just too hard to prove that negative.
JBB: "I read in an article once that Kramnik has a masterbation problem. He may be just jerking the nerves out between moves.... if I was Topa, I would use a tissue when recapturing!!"
So is it safe to say that Kramnik is known to hold on to his Bishop at all costs?
If Topalov finds a computer program that would reccomend Bxf8...
PlayJunior, I can easily write such a chess program and sell it to Topalov for half of his prize money :)
Maybe they should change the regulations: afterwards, the players should be allowed to the toilet only together. One of the players begins negotiations with a wink and word "piss?". Only restriction is that one should not multiple proposals at the same time:wink, "draw?", "piss?" sequence is prohibited.
we have a new word: cheatsh**
Eric Schiller has commented that while he was arbiter during the Kasparov v Kramnik 2000 match, he was informed that Kramnik had a condition which required frequent trips to the bathroom.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=52037&crosstable=1
GM Raymond Keene has also weighed in on the argument that Kasparov was unhappy with Kramnik's frequent loo trips (of course all this was done quietly of course) during the London 2000 match
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=52037&crosstable=1&kpage=392
It might all be designed by Vlad to provoke Topa and made him couldn't concentrate at the board and then wasted time off the board with his team to speculate and formulate the complaint. Hey, one needs time to view and count ~20-24 hours of bathroom video.
Just in case, to the user that said:
"It matters not one whit whether Topalov has anything directly to do with this- he chooses to have Danailov represent him. I used to admire Topalov a lot, but after Danailov came on the scene I lost most of my respect for Topalov as a person (not as a chessplayer).
- First, the way Danailov is Topalov's manager was not precisely because of Topalov's choice, is because of a long relationship, in which Mr, Danailov represents a possesive figure, something like a stepfather (they are together before Topalov was known by the chess world and there is a history about how they met), or similar. So, it is not a case you can say "I just change my manager". It is a presence (with the exception of violence manifestations) similar to Mary Pierce's or Sharapova's father in tennis, or Rustam Kamsky on Gata; you cannot separate from these people easily because of all guilt, mixed feelings behind.
- Topalov seems to be a very shy person, which is the reason that makes Danailov's presence more constant than in any other chess manager.
- Paradoxically, now that Topalov has reach the highest chess level of his career, Danailov's presence can one of the negative influences for him in the rest of his career, including possibly losing this match. I cannot imagine how many pressure Danailov puts in Topalov (the classical example of a father that wants to realize his dreams via his sons); I even doubt Topalov is enjoying to play chess in this moment.
- This is the main difference with Kramnik now: Not who is better player, is who is enjoying playing chess and who is suffering playing chess.
Poor Topalov...
"Paradoxically, now that Topalov has reach the highest chess level of his career, Danailov's presence can one of the negative influences for him in the rest of his career, including possibly losing this match. I cannot imagine how many pressure Danailov puts in Topalov (the classical example of a father that wants to realize his dreams via his sons); I even doubt Topalov is enjoying to play chess in this moment."
There is a perfect example: Rustam kamsy a decade ago.
Eric Schiller posts this in chessgames.com:
"I can comment on crime makes trips to the bathroom. This came up in the 2000 match against Kasparov, and it turns out that Kramnik has a condition which causes frequent bathroom visits. That's all there is to it."
This reminds me of a quote Nigel Short said on chessbase which went something like "at least with this time limit the players get a chance to take a piss". And how!
Maybe Danailov should suggest that the second half of the match be played at FIDE's time limit so Kramnik will not be able to piss that much.
Joking aside, as some said I don't think this is Topalov's initiative. I think it's just a plot to try to put Kramnik off track. And Topalov should sack his manager after this farce.
Topalov is a nice guy who has many followers and this will do him no good.
Maybe it's time for FIDE to include a toilet aribiter for important chess tournaments. His job will be to watch players taking a piss. hehe
Duncan
Pascual,
Topalov is no teenager like Ponomariov ( also managed for a time by Danailov, with good chess and terrible managerial consequences ), he is a 31 year old veteran pro who has made his career the hard way and knows what is going on in this world. There are no excuses. Also, he seemed prety cocky and happy while playing and winning until very recently, specifically until he missed a simple mate a couple of games ago. Now suddenly you have realised that Topalov must be a shy and miserable person at heart, helplessly dominated by an unfulfilled father figure, and we're supposed to feel sorry at the site of this tragedy that unfolds. Oh, please. Take the pseudo-psychology somewhere else.
And wasn't it Topalov himself, rather than Danailov, who suggested that Kramnik wasn't in the same league as Topalov anymore, due to rating, and thus did not deserve consideration for playing a match? I guess he was right, Kramnik is certainly not in the same league!
This is obviously all Kasparov's doing, and I'm surprised that Greg Koster hasn't seen through it already, he must be losing his edge. Through the use of some well placed diuretic ingredients, Kramnik might be exposed as a cheater, thus retroactivelly losing ( per current IOC compliant regulations ) his World Championship crown of 2000, and therefore Kaspy's title is by default reconstituted, his retirement annuled ( since his then status as ex-champion was apparently false ) and he is the undisputed and unanimous champion for the period 2000-2006, to go along with his previous reign. Topalov's role in exposing the plot leads to his automatic disqualification and imprisonment now that Bulgaria is joining the European Union, since it constitutes a flagrant violation of the EU privacy act, regarding the confidentiality of private health activities. I'm telling you, Garrry has once again seen many moves ahead of them all.
Apeals committee verdict
http://www.fide.com/news.asp?id=1122
it really (wc) match )):
For today's game, if I was Kramnik I would put a couple of sheets of toilet paper on the playing table and then do the staredown maneuver on Topalov.
Will they shake hands today?
Duncan
No. Danailov issues another letter where it says Topalov will not shake Kramnik's hand before the games and will not take part in the press conferences with him but will have press conferences of his own.
..if he continues the match at all..
http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/event/kratop06/kratoppress2.html
Second press release with Topalov going to war and ending normal relations. Which was probably the aim all along.
New demands by Danailov: http://topsport.ibox.bg/news/id_627695350
Excuse my poot translation from Bulgarian. That is the text of new press-release.
To the Organizing Committee of the match
To the Appealing Committee
To all massmedia
After reading Appealing committee decision, we want to state the following:
1.We are not satisfied with the decision, because it does not change anything. Mr Kramnik can attend toilet infinite number of times, without beeng controled.
2. We agree to coninue using restrooms only if there is observer in each of the rooms.
3. Players should be accompanied to the toilet be assistent arbiters.
4.Security checks up till now has been conducted only Organising committee representatives. Our ream experts were present only to room checks, morover, only after game two.
5. We are puzzled why accredited journalists are not allowed to see restrooms recordings.
World Champion Weselin Topalov is indignant by the suspicious behavior of mr Kramnik, who takes his most important decisions in the toilet.
In spite of all this, in the name of chess, and due to his respect to FIDE, people of Kalmykia and chesslovers all over the world, Veselin Topalov is ready to continue his participation in the match, if all precations to ensure fair play are meet.
If the match continues The World Champion will not handshake with Mr Kramnik before games and will not participate in press-conferences together with Mr Kramnik. Veselin Toplav will give media statements independently.
We anticipate your answer up to 14:00 local time with decisions to the questions raised by us
29.09.2006
Elista
Sincirely your: Silvio Danailov, Head of the Bulgarian delegation
I hope Kramnik will push it to win today.
Oops. Sorry, I see the text is already in the media with good English translation :).
Hmmm....so there's still a chance they will shake hands after the game. :)
If nothing else this has generated tremendous interest. We the public want hundreds of photos or video coverage of the first 5 mins of the game. And of Kramnik's first toilet visit!!
29.09.2006 Sincerely: Elista Silvio Danailov, Manager of the Bulgarian team
Why is he signing the press releases in his capacity as the "Manager of the Bulgarian team"?
This is not a national team event. The nationality of the world champion is irrelevant, I think.
It seems stupid for Danailov to try to turn this into a "Bulgaria vs Russia" fight when they're playing on Russian turf.
" To the Organizing Committee of the match Topalov vs Kramnik
To the Appeals Committee Mr. Makropoulos Mr. Azmaiparashvili Mr. Vega
To all mass media
Ladies and Gentlemen,
After we got acquainted with the ruling of the Appeals Committee of the Topalov vs. Kramnik world championship match we deem it necessary to point out the following:
1. The ruling in its present form is not satisfactory to us since it practically does not result in any change. Mr. Kramnik will be able to visit the new bathroom an unlimited number of times without being subject to further control.
2. We would accept the current relaxation rooms to continue to be used provided that the presence of controllers in both rooms is ensured.
3. When the two players need to go to the bathroom, they should be accompanied by an assistant arbiter.
4. The checks carried out in the relaxation rooms were made only by experts of the Organizing Committee, whereas our experts were present as observers and only after the second game.
5. We find it difficult to understand why is it that the accredited journalists are denied access to the video tapes from the relaxation rooms.
The World Champion Veselin Topalov is outraged by the suspicious behavior of his opponent Mr. Vladimir Kramnik who in actual fact takes his most significant decisions in the bathroom.
Despite the above, in the name of the chess game and out of respect to FIDE, to Kalmikia and the millions of chess lovers, Veselin Topalov is willing to continue his participation in the match provided that measures to guarantee fair play are taken.
If the match were to continue, the World Champion would refrain from shaking hands with Mr. Kramnik before the games and would not take part in joint press-conferences with him. Veselin Topalov will make statements for the media separately.
We look forward to receiving your response by 14.30 h hoping that it will give concrete answers to the questions that we pose.
29.09.2006 Sincerely: Elista Silvio Danailov, Manager of the Bulgarian team "
That's utterly mad.
If in you insist on this paranoia, you check the player he doesn't have any equipment and it's obvious there won't be any hidden equipment in a shared bathroom. Problem solved.
They would want an arbiter to follow Kramnik to the bathroom, a player who has a medical condition that requires these visits? How would that affect Kramnik's nerves, his mental state or his concentration during the game? It's just unbelieveable they would demand this. Then they act like it's Kramnik who has been "outrageous in his behaviour" while Topalov is the poor victim and the saint in this.
Just unbeliveable. You can't just go around accusing people in public, with next to no evidence. There should be clauses against it (in future contracts at least).
I guess many people are quicly losing respect for Topalov. Great chess is one thing, but you should act a human being with manners and dignity.
http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/event/kratop06/kratoppress3.html
The Kramnik camp explanation objecting to the whole thing and explaining what he's doing in the bathroom.
So it seems we are into a Karpov-Korchnoi 1978 type of situation, which is a shame. When the match started I really didn't care much who won. I was rooting for Kramnik but thought that whoever won would be a worthy (and finally undisputed) champion. Now I just hope that Kramnik kicks Top's a**
One scary thing is that this kind of tactic occasionally works. I remember Monica Seles some years ago (don't remember the exact year) during Wimbledon was heavily criticised for grunting loudly when hitting the ball. This was during a time when she was completely unbeatable, however in the final the criticism seems to have gotten the best of her. She played the final in silence (well at least toned the grunting down) - and duly lost.
I presume (and sincerely hope) that Kramnik's psyche is strong enough to not be bothered by this whole thing.
On another note, wouldn't Topalov's career more or less be over if he actually walked out (barring any serious proof that Kramnik was actually cheating)? Presumably he would forfeit the match, not be included in the next WC cycle, and who would want to invite a player whom they can't count on actually finishing the tournament.
And he certainly wouldn't gain any fans (it seems he's lost quite a few already).
Oh, and finally I just HAVE to get this (horribly bad) pun in: I think this course of action by the Topalov camp is below the waist ;-)
"In the meanwhile Mr. Kramnik will stop playing this match as long as FIDE is not ready to respect Mr. Kramnik’s rights, in this case to use the toilet of his own restroom whenever he wishes to do so."
Does this mean that the match is off??
So Kramnik stops playing. It's the only logical decision. He has my respect.
Very principled reply from Kramnik's camp. Can't disagree with much anything of that. In fact if all (radio) signals are banned, if players are checked and local police force have searched the bathrooms it should pretty much rule out even all possibilities of cheating. And nothing in Kramnik's chess would suggest that. Quite to the contrary. It's just disgraceful from Topalov's camp, and the arbiter committee in this light.
Wonder if we will see the fifth game with Kramnik seemingly insisting he will stop the match unless the verdict, which he sees as a clear violation of the agreed contract, is overturned.
So both players are now pissed off. One toilet will not be enough for sure.
Well we all said that Topalov's style is like Fischer. Ok we were refering to his play on the board. But why not be similar off the board too?
Remember the squeaking chair in 1971?
Just saw the Kramnik press release.
"By starting the match both participants agreed all the playing conditions de facto and de jure and the conditions are therefore legally binding. Any change of the playing conditions without a good reason would in our understanding request the approval of both players which is not the case here".
I think this says it all. Conditions are written in the contracts, have been approved by both camps and so, are legally binding.
I fully agree with the Kramnik objections.
Saxo that made my day.
Why would they return the $5000 fee for the complaint to Danailov?? Is that to mean implicitely that they agree with him?
I must admit that even in complaining, Kramnik and his team are by far superior than Topalov. Hensel's letter is just marvelous.
what utter crap... I honestly hope that Topalov fires Danailov... about the parapsychodude Danailov has already admitted that the guy talks more to him then to Topalov... about kramnik reaction: I do understand it and he has every right but still I had hoped that he would just say: why bother with such nonsense, it on the board that you'll have to beat me Topalov (or rather Danailov)
Kramnik is right in calling the show off. You just can't have one team harassing the other player by having arbitrary rule-changes imposed on him for absolutely no good reason at all.
When I read the Appeals Committee's letter, I immediately expected a response like this from the Kramnik camp. The incompetence and unfairness of the ruling cries to the sky.
So Hensel wants to change the appeals committee for being biased, even though it was set up in accordance with the match regulations. Isn't the neutrality of the committee an issue they should have complained about before the match? Bringing it up now, when they get a decision against, seems a little late.
Oh ho! This must prove that Kramnik has something to hide.
.. and its a perfect time for Kramnik to bail out. Two lucky points ahead, so even if it is defualted for Topalov then Kramnik can continue pretending he is/ ever was WC.
tri tra trollalla
Dramatic.
I don't know if Kramnik is right in threatening to stop playing, but one thing is clear -- if he does, he is the one with his honor intact.
Then Topalov can be the World Champion by forfeit if that is what happens. Well, so be it!
Ridiculous. If Kramnik was going to "cheat", he would certainly do it less obviously. So he ate a stale McChicken. Topalov knows he can't win and he's too chicken to go down fighting.
But all the puns on this thread have given me a good laugh... Will they shake hands tomorrow... that's my favorite.
IronAgeMan, how about waivering off $5000 fee to be baised?
Either stick to the rules or bend them all the time.
As MarkC said, this is a plot to distract on Danailov's part. And I found it pretty strange that Kramnik uses the WC to walk.
damnit, I had it with this... if the match get called of I propose we start a new chessorganisation, get a tournament going (whatever format) and call or champion: chess champion of the universe...
another proposal is that we hand out UIM and UGM titles with much stricter norms... they are really taking the piss out of us patzers...
New 2006 WCC Slogan:
"This toilet ain't big enough for the two of us."
"There can be only one (sh**ter in this toilet)!"
Here I sit, I can do no other, God help me.
Kramnik confesses...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a378/TJKnyte64/BATHROOMMANEUVERS.jpg
acirce,
but KRam is orthodox (or jewish?), certainly not protestant, no? ;o)
If the match is called off now it means that Kramnik remains the Champion to even more people than in the beginning of the match and FIDE ends up having in their hands a FIDE Champion more water down and devaluated than ever. Funny stuff!
Kramnik's decision to stop playing is clearly the right thing to do. Topalov has lost his marbles.
Oh and for the hell of it: Media Warfare Kramnik 6 - Topalov 0 (tennis figures). And Topa+Danailov even had the advantage of 1st serve and yet ended up with their hands in a pile of manure. Enjoy the smell or stink should I say.
Damn. This was a really nice match, and now they stop. Disgusting behavior by the Topateam.
Is it finally time to abandon the joke that FIDE has become?
If they can't even stage a world championship match (not to mention the candidate matches) what good are they.
If all the chessplayers just gave the finger to Ilyumzhinov, he and Topalov could sit there with their so called world championship, while the rest of players fought for the real thing.
I truly think the chess world missed a golden opportunity this year when Ilyumzhinov was re-elected as president. FIDE is never going to be anything but a joke as long as Kirsan is at the wheel.
Does anyone have access to live cameras(if there are any). What's goin' on?
you mean the toilet ones?
Kramnik should put flowers at his closed toilet door and continue playing
FIDE live broadcast page has no moves in it...Well if they have really stopped the match that would be disgusting.
Seems like the game is not on. At least this appears to be the case on the official site. Too bad, it was a nice event..Thanks Topa. You flushed it down...with your title.
who is not playing game 5???
Topalov/Danilov's "dirty" tricks are pathethic. Hopefully Vlad is as unimpressed as he was about the para-psychologist on the Topa team.
Maybe Topa will remove all the toliet roll in the shared toilet to "increase the pressure" on Vlad
Breaking news:
It seems the players have agreed to play. The decision was taken amicably. Apparently they have broken down the dividing wall between two toilets, placed a board there and have started playing. Since no wiring is permitted inside, then the moves cannot be relayed.
The person in charge of relaying the moves complained of the smell and protested.
I'm loving this.........
all in all, pretty pathetic. Blame Kirsan all you like, but chessplayers are pretty childish too. what the hell is going on??? A WC cannot be organised so that there is no possibility of cheating? I want to puke.
Perhaps Kramnik has slipped a computer into his Kidney, and whenever he goes to the bathroom, a sequence of colours is emitted through his urine that can be decoded into a sequence of winning moves. Topalov is on to something.
Omg Chessbase says Kramnik's clock is running and Topalov is sitting at the board. Kramnik is missing.
From chessbase:
The start of the game has been delayed to settle the controversy between the two sides. Update: Topalov is sitting at the board, Kramnik's clock is running. The 'game' started at 15:22h Elista time. *
Hmmm...fishy...so now it becomes Kramnik's fault? For fairness sake, stop THAT CLOCK.
Duncan
Update from Playchess chat:
André (Schulz): "Information from Elista: Topalov is sitting at the board, Kramnik's clock is running. The 'game' started at 15-22 msk."
OK down the drain the match goes... such a pity
Update from Chessbase site:
Kramnik is in his rest room, and is waiting for his toilet to open. The press conference of Makropoulos is about to start. So far it seems the game is not going to start unless the toilet is open... *
Open the BLOOMING TOILET
chessbase: Kramnik is in his rest room, and is waiting for his toilet to open. The press conference of Makropoulos is about to start. So far it seems the game is not going to start unless the toilet is open...
from chessbase: "Kramnik is in his rest room, and is waiting for his toilet to open". lol. this is too funny to be true.
Nothing could unify Topalov and Kramnik fans like this Toilet Issue. What a pity the match will probably end after this.
Topalov still has fans?
At this point, it's hard to distinguish the joke/troll posts from the real ones. Is it REALLY true that Kramnik's clock has started?
'Topalov still has fans?'
Maybe only one but Great and Terrible ;)
Marc, it appears so. http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3375
Yes, started.
According to Chessbase (http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3375) Kramnik's clock has started. And Kramnik is sitting in the rest room waiting for the new (?) toilet to be opened. Topalov is sitting at the board.
PlayJunior: unfortunately I don't think that "fan unification" is in the cards. Judging by the kibitzing on ICC, the Kramnikiks are of the opinion that this is all Topalov's fault, while the Topalovers are just as mad at Kramnik.
At least Kramnik has one fan, in the toilet.
Mind you, I understand now why drinking beer can hurt your elo badly.
"Kramnik is in his rest room, and is waiting for his toilet to open." (Chessbase) This has the be the most absurd statement I've ever seen in a "move-by-move" account. Why do these people make Borat look like a genuine ambassador?
Anyone know of a audio webcast live from the Event? Maybe we can at least listen to the commentators reaction?
Quite normal the toilet opening is used during a WC game, finally....
But I cannot find the ECO code.
somebody open this damn door...it is so simple...
Now i'm totally confused.
In the US i was told to call a toilet a restroom. Does that mean Wladi has 2 toilets, switching between'em ? Including the public one this already sums up to 3, which is nearly Dubai standard.
But when they are all closed then this would mean you have a real time pressure!
breaking news:i hated chess i am not chess fan anymore!
So the mafioso thug Danailov has already ruined Ponomariov's career - now it's time to do the same with Topalov. Great.
Chess is dead, guys. Let's go play darts.
Open that door, the man has to go peeing...
Chessgames.com is down. Too much traffic?
Mig, I'm so disappointed by you. Here comes a major crisis, and all you can do is childish scatological humour?
Danailov is trying to wage a psychowarfare - and might well succeed to ruin the unification process - by making up spurious accusations - so what if Kramnik goes a thousand times to the bathroom if said space has been checked against cheating devices - worse than those that were trumped up in Baguio - they don't have the cold war as an excuse. And all you can do is show once again your distaste of Kramnik?
Shame on you!
Sigh.
A shared toilet is reasonable.
Kramnik is being a child.
Topalov and crew are playing mindgames. Bravo.
Which is worse for chess: Kirsan or Topalov?
"Now i'm totally confused. In the US I was told to call a toilet a restroom."
The site reports are translations. From what I can tell, each player has a relaxation area, with light refreshments, coffee, water, etc. This is the place referred to as the "rest room," but it is not a bathroom. Inside this "rest room" is a separate room with a door, where the toilet is located. There is video surveillance in the "rest room," but not in the toilet room, which would be disgusting.
So, when there are reports of Kramnik visiting the rest room 50 times a game (or however many times), he is NOT necessarily going to the potty. He is going to his private rest area. Mind you, it's still an awful lot of trips, but he is not necessarily relieving himself every time.
Given the usual English meaning of "restroom," one would think that Kramnik had an unusual case of incontinence, but as it's being used here, I think it means "the room where players can rest," not the toilet.
Could this be the reason for what is happening? -
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3106
Look who is in that picture:
http://www.chessbase.com/news/2006/mtel/r04-05.jpg
And guess who is also a member of the Appeals Committee...
If Kramnik wins, the Radja-Topa match would be off. I had already commented at the time that this created a clear conflict of interest for FIDE.
I'm just ashamed to be a chess friend now.
Topalov can't win over the board, and succumbs to Danailov's thuggish suggestion to pursue a personal attack. DISGUSTING.
FIDE did not report the extent of Danailov's exaggeration of the number of bathroom visits, and didn't permit reporters to analyze the tapes.
Unfortunately, we can't trust FIDE to keep chess a fair game.
(Admittedly Fischer-Spassky and Korchnoi-Karpov had even more controversy, and in the case of Karpov, even more vicious personal attacks, including maneuvres vs. Korchnoi's wife.)
Game likely not to go ahead. Kramnik in his rest room demanding the restoration of the agreed conditions. His clock has been running since 12:20.
taken from TWIC
It would be so like FIDE to actually forfeit Kramnik and give the match to Topalov, regardless of the obvious unfairness and the fact that nearly every chess lover would be aghast at Topalov's and FIDE's actions.
If a player doesn't appear at the board after 30 minutes, it's a forfeit, right?
Another comment about match behavior : In one of Spassky's stressful matches he did most of his thinking away from the board. As I recall that was vs. Karpov.
For a WC match we have ultra-high stress on both sides, well beyond the contestants. Even more with the Unification, since both contestants really believe they are world champions. Their beliefs are so strong that over the board doesn't seem to be an adequate test...
@Severin, as stupid as it sounds... I start believing what you said.
Game 5 Kramnik 0 - 1 Topalov (time)
http://www.worldchess2006.com/main.asp?id=918
FIDE's rules say "Any player who arrives at the chessboard more than one hour after the scheduled start of the session shall lose the game unless the rules of the competition specify or the arbiter decides otherwise." The reports say Kramnik DID arrive at the chessboard within that time - just didn't make his move. I don't see what's the legal reason to forfeit this game already is but I may be misunderstanding something.
Game is forfeit. I don't believe it.
A disgrace - Shame on FIDE, Topalov and Danilov
Hmm, there was a brief message in red text on the worldchess link above saying that no moves from game 5 would be available, watch the news page for details.
If FIDE haven't stepped back from their decision and annul todays game, then I guess Kramnik will be flying out og Elista shortly.
I believe it. This is a natural next step in the evolution of FIDE's destruction of chess. They have done so much to destroy chess that you almost can't imagine them doing anything more damaging, but now they will show us just how bad they can make it.
When you don't think you can't improve: This is the worst image for chess ever. Imagine the mass press articles coming up.
There was a good start with exciting games and now everything is getting spoiled.
Lets wait for Magnus and Sergey to replace those mind workers and managers.
Lets wait for champions taking care of the game and the fans.
FIDE will never forfeit the match. It's not their style. If they stick to the RULES (which they never do) then it should be a forfeit (no matter how much we complain (me included)). They will want a compromise between the parties.
So now, Danailov has another weapon up his sleave. He will say that the score should be 3-2. Kramnik's team will never accept this.
So the match is now in real difficulty unless some angel will think of some solution.
Duncan
I agree with knight_tour. FIDE lacks the minimal moral authority that is necessary to ensure a fair game. This is the last straw.
This is an insult to all chess fans. Our only hope resides now in Mr. Putin, to ask for a fair match for his countryman.
i dont understand why kramnik doesnt want to use another toilet. whats the big deal.
Well, that was a short unification! Now we are back to having two world champions again. Topalov can claim that he was the world champion before Elista and is still the world champion because Kramnik is forfeiting the match. Kramnik can claim that he is the world champion because he was leading the match when it broke down over the Topalov team's insults and FIDE's bias.
In an ideal world all the chess fans would calm down and try to urge the players and their managers to calm down, but in the actual world it looks as if everyone is running for kerosene to pour on the flames. You need more moral authority than -I- have to try to simultaneously point out to the Topalovers that Kramnik was almost certainly not using Fritz in the bathroom, and to point out to the Kramnikniks that their guy is the guy who is refusing to play unless he gets his way over the bathroom issue.
What's the big deal? It is the principle of the thing. Everything had been addressed properly and the match was proceding just fine. If Kramnik gives in to this, the 'Bulgarian team' would view that as a psychological victory and would continue to drum up more crazy things. Kramnik is right to take a stand. FIDE will botch it all of course, and we will be forced to suffer for it. How long will public sympathy remain with Kramnik? Memories are notoriously short.
Look, if the final result is 0-1, Kramnik's walking for sure.
If the result is NOT 0-1, Topalov's walking.
I don't exactly see how there's any possibility of compromise here.
Are they going to have photos from game 5 at the official site?
Remind the good old times reading through Garrys superb books on his great Predecessors. He's right , there will be no now great successors finally.
It's tactical move by Kramnik. The match is broken off; he is still moral World Champion just like before, with Danemman, etc. If he would have chosen to stay and win and beat Topo, then he is only WC until the next Fide tournament, which, odds on, he won't win. Not because he's a bad player, but that's just the nature of tournaments. I think Kramnik is quite happy to leave Elista. Except he can't, because the airpport is closed!
From Chessbase:
"We do not know whether the forfeit is official, but by normal rules Kramnik has lost game five on time. Kramnik appeared at the Makropoulos press conference and made a statement, saying that the Appeals committee is clearly biased. Kramnik demands replacing all members of the Appeals committee, and said he is prepared to play the fifth game of the match tomorrow, according to the rules accepted prior to the match. *"
Wishful thinking department:
Putin calls Kirsan.
Kirsan restarts the match at Game 5 under the playing conditions agreed before the match.
Topalov's camp is bought off with a WCC invitation (if he loses the match) or some other trinket.
Does anyone have Makro's conference that chessbase said he made when the 5th game was postponed?
Duncan
Topalow is destroying his own dream, beeing the 15th champion in a long honest line --- but not at the board.
Duncan, I'm sure it will appear on Chessbase as soon as they get it ready. The official site has been quite slow in their web updates so it might take a while until the press conference can be read from there.
It was a 'clever' move by the Appeals Committee. They knew that Kramnik is very principled and that he would never accept a breach of contract. The best way to sabotage the match...
The playing conditions were inspected and agreed to by all parties before the match.
The issue is not the "restroom". The issue is whether the agreed-upon rules can be arbitrarily changed in the middle of a WCC match.
Kramnik's team has learned from Spassky's sad experience of 1972; when he accommodated Fischer's nonsense and agreed to play in a separate room. Kramnik won't make the same mistake.
If FIDE cannot be relied upon to follow it's own rules then no FIDE agreement or arrangement is ever reliable. But we knew that already, didn't we.
Misha Savinov is CBs correspondent in Elista. I guess we're relying on him to relay info to Germany and then to the rest of the world.
Today chess has made me feel ashamed. I feel terrible, that's why I'm writing this now. Again people will start talking about chess for all the wrong reasons, and we will have to explain and fend off the laughs. What Topalov and Danailov have done, in any other sport or activity would be worth of millions of dollars in damages, together with the eternal scorn and contempt from all the fans who are interested. The federation of course has no people left with any sense of dignity or purpose to impose some order and safeguard its image, and that of the game itself. No mechanism to control what is going on and by who and in what manner during its highest-profile and most anticipated event. I can't believe it. Maybe it's a nightmare and we'll wake up to a glorious game five tommorow.
Topalov, you are the biggest loser in the history of sports. Iliumzhinov you are not even good enough to accomplish the only thing we might have expected of you these days, deal appropriatelly with a thug like Danailov. Kramnik, your name may become a joke in the news for quite some time, and you have every right to never want to go anywhere near those creatures again in your life. And I'm not even remotely a fan of your game.
FIDE BREACHES CONTRACT YET AGAIN! FORCING KRAMNIK TO ACCEPT BREACH IN 2 HOURS OR FORFEIT!
I no longer have any respect for Topalov in fact I despise him and his buddies on FIDE.
The whole "50 trips is suspicious" argument is nonsense.
For a top GM involved in cheating, a normal-appearing four or five trips to the washroom would provide ample opportunity.
Before the match, Topalov was considered by most people as a brigth chess player. Since chances are high that the match might be over, conclusions are clear.
1) In everybody's heart, Kramnik was and remains world champion.
2) We must get rid of FIDE at once. We must push on our federations to force them to leave FIDE.
3) We must put pressure on tournament organizers, especially top tournaments, to see Topalov banned from them for a few years.
The damage FIDE has done to chess is immense. As low as we can find ourselves, Kirsan will always find new resources to go deeper.
Again. Gens una sumus? Sorry to say, Mr Makropoulos, Mr Illumjhinov, that I'm not part of your gens. Therefore, I invite everybody reading this lines to SEND MAIL TO YOUR CHESS FEDERATION TO QUIT FIDE ASAP.
It seems to me that Danailov has two issues:
1. Kramnik's trips enable him to receive illegal outside assistance.
2. Kramnik's trips impact Topalov's concentration (by being so frequent).
Issue #1 is legitimate. With today's high technology capabilities and the frequency of the trips one has good reason to demand elimination of any possibility of cheating. All you need to do is quickly scan the players as they arrive to the games, as well as inspect the bathroom before the game starts and and limit access to it to solely the players themselves. Use of public bathroom on the opposite would make passing messages to the players easier.
Issue #2 can be a concern if Kramnik keeps jumping up every couple of minutes and it irritates Topalov. That's what I thought was going on when I first heard of the situation. I can see this being annoying, but it's nothing GMs don't do all the time--walk about, pace, rock their legs, etc.--it is unusual that his side would react this strongly to such a situation. If Topalov is at the table, where Kramnik is walking should not matter. Nothing in the release suggests that the behavior is personally irritating or distracting to Topalov, I believe their implication is that Kramnik is cheating.
Not only does Kramnik's play not suggest that this is the case but such an issue is easily fixed through measures that don't ask for match termination or prevent Kramnik from however much bathroom time he needs.
Virginia is for lovers! And Kalmykia is for criminals!
Only problem with that Ruslan is that my federation is an inept as FIDE. I agree with your sentiments though, and have long argued that the sensible federations need to leave FIDE.
Just move the chess board to the toilet room. That way Kramnik will enter the toilet room only once: when he arrives.
Game over.
First Topalov did not want Kramnik to use a private bathroom.
Now he does not want to shake hands. Isn't this suspicious? May be, now he believes, Kramnik would try to poison him when shaking hands?
Kramnik has no choice but wait until FIDE forces Topalov to follow rules agreed before the match began. If FIDE declares VLad forfeited, he shall put FIDE on trial.
Well thank you very much. I was really looking forward to having a unified champion, but what are the odds of that happening now. Topalov won't accept playing game 5 tomorrow, and Kramnik won't accept the forfeit. In the end there is a high likelyhood of being left with an abandoned match.
I wonder why they have trouble finding sponsors.
I for one just don't care anymore.
Actually that's not entirely true. I care a lot about chess, and the history and traditions of this great game. I guess it would be more correct to say that I have given up hope.
Unless they manage to sort this whole mess out and finish the match in a proper and ADULT way they can quite frankly all go to [insert most unpleasant place you can think of].
I for one will sit back and wait for Carlsen. He is the man (well, boy as of now) who can ultimately unify the chess world
Alan L,
I share your sadness.
I write a chess article on our national newspaper every Saturday. Tomorrow's article will feature the first four games. In it I praised the players for one of the best matches of fighting chess ever. It was so easy to write....
But what shall I write for next Saturday? How can I explain to the public that a mere f****** toilet is ruining the most important chess match in the past decade if you like!
This match will set a precedent. Anyone can disrupt a match by inventing any excuse. If a toilet can do the trick, then imagine the rest of the possibilites.... (his watch has a Fritz chip installed, his glasses has an incorporated miniscule camera that gives the winning moves on a screen visible to the eye, his socks gives a morse code vibration that relates the moves sent by someone 300,000 miles away) and so on....
Duncan
The saddest thing is that up-and-coming geniuses like Carlsen have no true world championship title to look forward to. Their days will come and go without them getting the chance....
I'm not enough of an expert to say whether the Appeals Committee's decision was reasonable. Kramnik thinks the Committee is in Topalov's pocket, but the Committee did not give Team Topalov everything it wanted, and even said that the number of rest room visits, while unusual, had been exaggerated.
If the restrooms are inspected before each game, if there are deputy arbiters monitoring the area, and if the players are scanned for electronic devices, then I don't see how anyone could cheat. If Vlady wants to get up and stretch after every couple of moves, there is no rule against that.
It's hard to see where we go from here. Kramnik won't accept losing a point by forfeit, and FIDE isn't going to give it back, so we have a stalemate.
Theodulf: As far as I'm concerned, we don't have two world champions again, now we have none.
Alan L: exactly my feelings.
Marc,
The issue is, Appeals Committee does not have an authority to change rules without both players acceptance. If they found that Topalov's claim is legitimate, they had to discuss the matter with both players and to find solution suitable for both players. They can't breach the legal binding contract without implications.
By the way, Danailov's statement that Topalov wouldn't shake Kramnik's hand clearly shows that their toilet concern is just BS. Kramnik had nothing to the Appeal Committee decisition. It Topalov is not satisfied with decision made, why to blaim Kramnik?
Danailov, go home!
If I were in Kramnik's shoes, I'd play the next game under whatever rules Topalov and his FIDE cronies wanted, then proceed to soil myself right at the board.
I'd be sure to have a mixture of Prunes and burritos for breakfast, plenty of hot tea and water.
You could see this coming a MILE AWAY. Topalov is and always will be a sore loser.
I'm sure all the Topo fans out there are real proud of their boy and his team right about now.
Well, this Topo fan just stopped being one.
Thanks Dan. It has got to suck being a Topo fan right now!
"Interesting that nobody so far is giving this an objective view... Doesn't anyone else agree that Kramnik's behavior seems suspicious? I'd bet if any one of your opponents tried this during one of your games and was beating you, that you'd be more than a little upset/suspicious..."
Objectively, I think that Kramnik loathes sitting at the playing board with Topolav there. I don't know for sure, but if there are Chess Board Graphics of the game in progress in the 'rest room' (read, area you can rest in, not the bathroom), it would certainly be a much better environment to think in than on a stage with hundreds of people staring at you, and Little Mr. "I Wanna Be World Champion Too" sitting across from you (hoping my loathing of Topalov is not coming through too thick - FIDE Wanker though he may be).
Also, Kramnik is a bit of a 'pacer' so I don't think Topalov would prefer him distracting him on stage with his pacing back and forth.
This is obviously a B.S. psych ploy, and Kramnik is doing the right thing by the rules, no question.
I'm a Topa fan and still am. Although in this issue I'm on Kramnik's side (in the toilet matter) I still would like the match to continue normally and for Topa's brilliant chess to win over Kramnik's more cautious (sometimes boring) approach.
And I am also sure that this idea was Danailov's and not Topa's. Probably Topalov is pissed off at his manager at this moment. Don't forget that Topa put his title on the line a few months after he won it. He could easily have slept on it for another 2 years as is the norm.
Duncan
That's where you're wrong. Topalov has publicly stated that he will refuse to shake Kramnik's hand and they'll conduct separate interviews for there onwards.
This isn't exactly the kind of behaviour I expect from a chess champion.
This looks like Topalov has a hand in this.
It looks like Topalov already made 5 protests so far!
Sept.22 - First breach of the contract by FIDE on the request of Mr. Topalov. The agreed live monitors have been removed from rest rooms as well as the shower cabines in the bath rooms. The moves are provided on demonstration boards only.
Sept.24
Topalov's request to participate in rest room security checks, to close window, and to restrict access to rest rooms; reasonable and legitimate, IMHO.
Sept.28 - Second breach of the contract by FIDE by Topalov's request.
http://www.veselintopalov.net/article/scandal
Tapes released to Topalov, bathroom rules changed without Kramnik acceptance.
Sept.29
http://www.veselintopalov.net/article/mr-silvio-danailov-unhappy
Topalov issues a new request:
- to release tapes to journalists;
- to place watchers in rest rooms and to provide players help from an assistant arbiter during their visits to bathroom. Can't Topalov unzip himself? May be, his arms are shaking too much and he worries he can miss the opening?
Also, Topalov shows his "respect" to FIDE by agreeing to play, and obviously f%cks Kramnik up refusing to shake his hand without explanation.
Isn't this enough?
And fans of Topalov left here?
Duncan,
I perfectly understand where you stand. Just make sure your current article highlights the glory of chess when played fightingly and talentedly, a fact which can never be taken away from it by any thug, cheat or shortsighted idiot who is involved in the game today. Chess is fantastic, the best game that ever existed, one of the greatest stories there is out there in the world of sports and way beyond.
Then in your next issue do what you must. We all know there is no toilet issue here at all, and we no need no commitee verdicts or video analysis to confirm that. As if a cheating recipee requires 50 visits to a restroom in plain cameras and dozens of spectators ( Grek K pointed this out already ). So, concentrate on the obvious - how an unscrupulous manager and his out-of-options player destroyed a great occasion so that they can hung on to their title pretensions for a bit longer. Just write the truth.
Topalov is a low life. He only agreed to the match when he thought KRamnik was finished because of health reasons. Then when the real KRamnik turns up and is leading 2-0 he concocts a story to either unnerve KRamnik or have the match abandoned. He may succeed but public opinion will be squarely behind Kramnik
"Don't forget that Topa put his title on the line a few months after he won it. He could easily have slept on it for another 2 years as is the norm."
Wrong. FIDE required him to defend his title in this time frame. This is not your daddy's World Chess Championship.
Remember, Topalov, should he lose, misses out on the Radjabov payday as well. Perhaps he is hoping if he gets this match annulled, he can still play Radjabov for some coin?
I think startign the match was a great mistake.
After the complaint was filed by Danailov, the appeals committee took quite a while to reach its decision - the better part of yesterday.
Then they issued their decision very shortly before the 5th game was about to start, and without even consenting Kramnik c.s. This did not give Kramnik c.s. enough time to think about their decision, nor to file a counter-appeal.
To put pressure on Kramnik by starting the clock is very very wrong. It is absolutely unfair and indeed, favours Topalov heavily.
To all those proclaiming themselves to be ex-Topo fans: surely you put aside the image of a foaming-at-the-mouth anti-Semite when you admire Fischer's legacy?
Topalov, not having sunk quite so low, should be paid the same courtesy, don't you think?
Whatever misdeeds he can be accused of, he plays scintillating chess.
A burning question: Did Kramnik visit a public restroom during the one to two hours wait for his private restroom to be unsealed?
The complaint made on Topalov's behalf was crass psychological gamesmanship, wholly without merit, and has caused me to lose much respect for Topalov as a sportsman.
The decision of the appeals committee wrongly gave credence to the accusation implicit in the complaint. Changing the players' accommodations in the middle of a match is a serious threat to the players' concentration and such action is clearly not justified by evidence or reason in this case.
Kramnik is rightly insulted and upset by these developments. Ideally he would have played on under an emphatic protest. However, since his playing conditions have changed materially, unjustifiably, and for the worse, I believe he can honorably quit the match with his claim to being the world's best player fully intact.
I believe this would still be true even if he were trailing in the match at this point.
At the end of the day, the Topalov camp are not in the least bit concerned about honor. They know that they will still get their money. And, if Kramnik forfeits the next games, they will get their so-called championship title. That will ensure their $Topalov-Radjabov$ match. As for future elite tournaments, they will continue to be invited. They know all this because most people involved in professional chess (both grandmasters and officials) have shown that what they ultimately care about is making some money whichever way they can.
So Kramnik goes away with the moral victory and Topalov and Co. go on making dollars.
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The agreed live monitors have been removed from rest rooms as well as the shower cabines in the bath rooms. The moves are provided on demonstration boards only.