Kramnik Leads Tal Memorial

"Carlsen received more than a few smiles from fortune and probably none at all from Ivanchuk in round five."

When he loses, it's because of a "stupid" mistake and when he wins it's "with luck" and/or "fortune." Yepperdoddle, probably will plague him all the way to becoming the youngest world chess champion yet.

Has anyone ever owned the Catalan like Kramnik? This with the fact that the best in the world know ahead of time that it will be played against them. The guy has once again taken his technique to the next level. Sorry Topolov, no way. Anand, you have your hands full.

In fact, Kramnik got his +3 with another win today!

What happens if he ends up winning the tournament with a score of, say, +5...? Can we still consider Anand to be the world champ? Or even the world tourney champ...?

I don't think anyone can deprive Anand of his title merely because another man happens to win Tal Memorial. But Kramnik's Catalan seems to be, indeed, something from another level of chess. Why do his opponents allow themselves to be butchered like this, instead of resorting to Slav ov King's Indian?!

Today Kramnik won in a rare variant of Benoni, no Catalan there anymore, IMHO.

Jussu,

To some degree, I agree with you. Although you have to agree that a whopping Kramnik win in this tournament would add some spice to next year's WC match. I really hope Anand won't chicken out...

TM

Kramnik's Catalan Death Ray strikes again, "killing" Alekseev today in a mere 31 moves.

Sure it would, even though it won't probably be that huge, as Kramnik has only one white game left.

>>> Why do his opponents allow themselves to be butchered like this, instead of resorting to Slav ov King's Indian?!

When Kasparov was still playing, I kept asking myself why they kept taking on his Najdorf & getting butchered. I think it has more to do whith the man than the opening. Najdorf is risky for black so white takes up the challenge, Catalan seems safe for black so the black side tries it. Or something.

PS: you see what happened to Alekseev when he dodged the Catalan. ;)

It has been nice to see Kramnik playing in more than 3 supertournaments this year, he had a full calendar this year and has got very good results in all games (only one defeat in classical chess this year). It is curious that some people used to say "Kramnik does not care if he wins in tournaments, he is more a match player, etc", but in fact, when a player is in good shape, it doesn't matter. It seems that both Kramnik and Anand would be in the 2800's at the end of the year, doing justice to the fact they are the best players of the world by far (and I remember a lot of people talking about Ivanchuk ...).

Topalov might belong to a next echelon behind them, but it seems to me that Topalov's play is more one-dimensional and his recent victories demand a lot physically (I feel that Kramnik and Anand have a much better chess understanding, so their victories sometimes seem effortless), so he may run "out of gas" if he wants to be in the top.

All this is going to set up an amazing Corus next year with Anand, Kramnik, Topalov and Ivanchuk participating.

Btw will Kramnik and Anand face each other in the world blitz thing?

They will both participate, at least, so I guess so but I am not sure about the format.

Before that they will play a short 2-game Advanced Chess match. I think rapid time controls (30/g?).

I disagree that Topalov's play is more one-dimensional than Kramnik's. If we compare the 3 leading players: Anand, Kramnik and Topa, imho Kramnik (after the win over Garry) is the most one dimensional, while Anand is the most universal by quite a margin. Obviously Kramnik played very different chess before the London match, but he took a conscious decision to restrict his arsenal and some of his former weapons rusted and no longer work for him. We haven't seen a game where Kramnik went of his own accord for an unclear complex fight and prevailed for quite some time.

However, while Kramnik lacks a bit in variety of weapons, he is second to none in the mastery of the stuff that he employs. Plus he has a huge edge in mental strength and that makes him the best sportsmen of the 3.

So Anand got a rough deal. With Kramnik playing like this he doesn't have a chance to avoid the match with Kramnik and Kramnik's trumps in a match look to be superior to Anand's.

"We haven't seen a game where Kramnik went of his own accord for an unclear complex fight and prevailed for quite some time."

What about his win with white against Morozevich in Mexico?

I know, Morozevich ;) I guess if you can win as many games as Kramnik does without any risk of losing, it's hard to resist playing that way. It's just his black repetoire that could do with some extra bite...

Let's not forget that Morozevich game was very close to the home preparation. I don't know where it has ended, but I think Kramnik entered the complications with some confidence partly because of his analysis, partly because there was no other choice.

Kramnik is without doubt the best player in the world with the white pieces. He´s black openings could be more aggressive. On the other hand his style of play and his outstanding score with the white pieces is very suitable for match play and i believe Anand will have a tough time beating Kramnik in the upcoming, if it ever happens, world Ch. match.

>I disagree that Topalov's play is more one-dimensional than Kramnik's >

it is more uni-directional "onwards!"
(Kramnik is catching up these days though)

I think Kramnik said it best when he invoked Alekhine Capablanca and said something to the effect of: "It is incredibly difficult to beat Anand in a match, but I understand that there are people who believe it is even more difficult to beat Kramnik in a match"!!

This will truly be a case of an irresistable force meeting an immovable object - with the immovable object having a slight edge. 51-49 as Illescas said - and I have to agree though I'm an Anand fan!

Indeed, the world's best players (with the possible exception of Ivanchuk, who does not look quite as impressive as in last year or the first part of this one) currently seem to be in top form. Let's enjoy the good chess till it lasts!

Guys, Kramnik is a great match player, no doubt, but in all cases he has barely sqeezed these famous victories, owning to no small extent to his opponents blowing their chances. I don't think he shined in his Leko match, and even less in his Topalov match. Hopefully, Anand will learn a few lessons for their match.

D.

My guess is that Anand will get cold feet and avoid playing Kramnik. Then, we will have complete chaos again...

"Guys, Kramnik is a great match player, no doubt, but in all cases he has barely sqeezed these famous victories, owning to no small extent to his opponents blowing their chances."

Yeah right! He's even luckier and more fortunate than Carlsen when he wins. Amazing how some people interpret fact with fiction.

Exactly chesstraveler. He just happened to beat 2 2800+ players because they choked. We all know how 2800-players crumble at the least bit of pressure.
Kramnik sure is one lucky guy.

Someone calculated that Kramnik's performance rating with White this year was 2949 BEFORE today's win against Alekseev.

Scary.

yeah well unfortunately for Kramnik chess is also played with black.

I guess if we calculate anands performance with white and then with black, this year, both will probally be over 2850 :)
probally topalovs 2005 was both above 2850 too.

well, kramniks win over topalov in 2006 was no luck. he was leading 3-1 and the match ended "6-5"...

maybe kaspy was a little pessimist about carlsens performance in the tal memorial. chesstraveller has a point there. in the other hand, maybe he himself is a little optimistic about the "younger World Champion"... whatever :)

Anand, Kramnik and Topa are clearly one step above the other super GMs. Kramnik is the positional player, Topa the atacking and Anand is somewhere in between. Corus 2008 will be a fantastic event with the three of them playing.

I love Kramnik's style with white. It is so fluid and positionally correct. It sometimes seems like each game is a neat lesson in exploiting weak squares.

That said, the match with Anand will be great. It really has been a long time since the two best players in the world met in a match to decide the World Championship. It probably hasn't happened since London 2000, but even then you could (or rather, Shirov could) argue that it wasn't clear going in that Kramnik and Kasparov were the two best in the world.

Looks like Kramnik is having a very easy time with his fellow russians...

Ok, Kramnik is good, as I said, but don't get carried away guys. I've
been saying for an year now that Mig has collected "Kramnik Central"
here on this forum, willingly or unwillingly so. Kramnik is Ok, but in
tournaments when both Anand and Topalov participated he hasn't been
particularly "scary" (per acirce) lately. Matchwise, he drew Leko,
surprised Kasparov, while Topalov single-handedly dropped a pair of
won games -- yes, 3 consecutive lucky events do happen quite
easily. The future will show. Certainly, he is not as invincible as
some would like... Bottom line: if he was, he wouldn't be a Challenger
for the title yet again...

D.

Whats is all this talk of Anand being chicken and trying to avoid a match with Kramnik? This is silliness if Anand refuses to play FIDE strips him of the title and Kramnik plays Topolov again.
Then again I am not in favor of FIDE owning the title or the brand name "World Champion" It should belong to the PCA if they had the guts to run professional chess, rather than cry about hotel conditions.

I love all the players who have been saying that Kramnik isn't "a tournament player", and all the people who have been saying repeatingly that his chess days were gone when he got down to 2729 two years ago. Those people don't have a single gram of chess understanding in their heads. But that's what you get when patzers comment the playing level of champions. That's what happens when people look at the elo, not at the games.

Kramnik has positive records against any world-champ caliber chess player. Against Kasparov, Anand, Topalov, Leko, Ivanchuk... He has won Linares three times, Dortmund eight. Most importantly, I really think that nobody apart from him would have been able to disgust Kasparov like he did in 2000.

Since Kramnik recovered from his illness (turin olympiads 2006) his overall chess performance is equal to 2830. He is the strongest active chess player, and maybe he's less agressive than Kasparov but his chess understanding is above Kasparov's, above everybody.

He's the only chess player who ever got an admirative chess comment from Kasparov ("nobody knows about the deepness of the thoughts of Kramnik").

But about people who say he's still world champion today... it's... just unfair to Anand. Today, Anand has seized the title. The rules were clear before Mexico, and all the players had signed a contract. Probably Kramnik will recover his title next year, but from a moral perspective even if it was not in match, even if, if and if, Anand deserves, for his huge career, to have this crown at least once. This situation is by far better than having a new Keres or Nimzovitch in our chess history.

The match in 2008 will be a great event, and it will be good publicity for chess, and great excitement for us as chess.

By the way, to the people who were thinking of Kramnik as a coward... when he was world champion he was focusing all his energy on avoiding losses at any price. Now, for a few months, he can play chess without any pressure, and you'll certainly see him taking much more risks.

Kramnik has always worn his crown with a high sense of the duties involved by the title. Avoiding as much losses as possible to keep the prestige of the title as high as possible, protecting (till the end and victoriously) the match tradition, whatever you may think of him, he protected our chess traditions.

But today he's free of all this. Just playing chess for himself. And without any pressure on him, you just see his chess level. Huge.

I put my bet that he'll end up Tal memorial with +4 or +5, and that he'll crush everybody at Dortmund for his 9th victory over there.

BIG, BIG chess by Kramnik. I guess RUBINSTEIN would rub his eyes...
The most amazing game was that against Leko. How can anyone hope to win that game if you take the middlegame position. And against one of the top ten players??
Maybe the young Karpov was able to win such a game.
Amazing stuff!

It's annoying to keep hearing people blame Kramnik, Topolav, whoevers success to luck or lapses by their opponents. If you follow any super tournament, you will notice that great players are frequently making one kind of mistake or another.

Guys,
Why don't you stop this useless and now boring discussion about who is better and who is the real world champ?
Chess is a kind of game, art, science or sport which is designed in a way that the more powerful one always wins and there is only very slight amount of luck and dirty politics involved in the result of a match (I know many people disagree because they want their favorite player to win).
So, wait until next year and follow the giants match to decide the title and don't worry who is the 15th or 14th or 20th world champion. These numbers are out of fashion these days. Just enjoy the games which I'm sure will be of the highest quality. Without any doubt, these two are the best players in the world after Kasparov retired himself. Kramnik is the more solid one and Anand is more exciting, so there we go: A clash between Fire and Ice again, the most dramatic event in any sport.
Relax and enjoy. Regardless of what FIDE names it or what stupid columnists fuss about, chess is still THE chess.

>BIG, BIG chess by Kramnik. I guess RUBINSTEIN would rub his eyes...>

Not likely, he would be to busy with monitoring something else. Rubinstein was troubled by his mental illness and in 1911 he complained of a fly that continually disrupted his concentration during tournaments. When asked if he was all right he said, "Oh I'm fine, I just need to see a doctor about this fly". Also during this time it was difficult to visit Rubinstein in his home. His wife warned many potential visitors, "Do not stay long, for if you do stay too long he will leave by way of the window."

Ovidu, just take a closer look at the games of Rubinstein. No matter what kind of troubles he had he was a master of the endgame unparelled to his contemporaries.
Who cares about his problems in later times when he produced timeless masterpieces masters of our time would be really proud of.

Is not all that "luck" talk above just metaphysical nonsense?
What is your definition of 'luck'??

Is it "luck" that you pressure your opponents more than they pressure you, to the point where on average they make more mistakes than you?

Is it "luck" being (on average) better at avoiding mistakes when you are under pressure?
Is it "luck" being better than your opponents at avoiding unpressured mistakes?

Leko did not lose game 14 in 2004 on any gross blunder (36... ra3d3, better was ra3a1, in the endgame). Kramnik played his moves to bring maximum pressure and problems to Leko.
Is superior endgame play "luck" too?

I like a proposition made in chesspro.ru forum:
In single round robins with participation of Kramnik the main tie-breaking rule should be what color they played with Kramnik ;-)
Another one: draw with black vs. Kramnik counts for 3/4 points. Retract 1/4 point for loss to Kramnik with white.

Looks as if Shirov is back to creating "Fire On Board." Three in a row.

GeneM,

No doubt about it. Kramnik is a technical player and a real force; right up there with the best ever. People said the same about Karpov when he dominated the game in the mid-seventies to mid-eighties. Winning in a strictly positional manner is just as impressive as any Alekhine, Tal or young Kasparov combinational masterpiece. For those who don't get it...oh well.

Speaking of luck -- I did not suggest that luck comes in isolation. God Forbid, otherwise my own life would have been quite inexplicable... All I suggested is that despite his great reputation, Kramnik's match victories have been less than overwhelming. It's not like he won by a KO in any of them. They were all victories by a split decision. Can you guys, particularly chesstraveler, employ some imagination and a bit of intelligence in interpreting what I mean, or that's above and beyond your abilities?

D.

"Speaking of luck -- I did not suggest that luck comes in isolation. God Forbid, otherwise my own life would have been quite inexplicable... All I suggested is that despite his great reputation, Kramnik's match victories have been less than overwhelming. It's not like he won by a KO in any of them. They were all victories by a split decision. Can you guys, particularly chesstraveler, employ some imagination and a bit of intelligence in interpreting what I mean, or that's above and beyond your abilities?

D."
-Posted by: Dimi at November 18, 2007 01:02

It's annoying to have to repeat this over and over, but the Topalov crowd loves to ignore it: Kramnik-Topalov classical part was only a draw because Toppy weaseled a forfeit due to his and Danailov's cheap antics. Kramnik actually won the classical part OTB by 1 point with 1 less game as white.

Yeah, and Dimi - beating Kasparov with a +2 score in a 16-game match without losing a game is hardly "less than overwhelming"!

What about losing from Shirov, with -2 in a 10-game match without winning a single game?

Or to go even further back, losing to Kamsky 4.1-1.5, or losing to Gelfand (was it 4.5-2.5?).

Ok, ok these are old examples, true. But winning Kasparov is not much newer than losing to Shirov...

And sure, Kramnik is great player. But this unbeatable in matches story that we have made.. A bit too much. Drawing with Leko, bearly winning Topalov are not that brilliant. Winning Kasparov is the one thing Kramnik WILL be remembered and NOT the so-called unbeatable in matches story.

"All I suggested is that despite his great reputation, Kramnik's match victories have been less than overwhelming..."

that's true but to win a chess game or a match you only need to be an edge better than your opponent...Kasparov or Fritz like crushings are fine but not necessary, 1-0 is 1-0 however achieved.
Kramnik has geared himself for such a "minimalist" approach (might be because his continous health-problems, he has to take care of how he distributes his energies in the long run)

Ovidiu: that's true but to win a chess game or a match you only need to be an edge better than your opponent...

Yes, undisputably so.

Ovidiu: Kramnik has geared himself for such a "minimalist" approach (might be because his continous health-problems, he has to take care of how he distributes his energies in the long run)

Could be. Sounds plausable.

Anyway, what will happen next year is way too early to speculate at
this point. A lot of rhetoric and emotions are based on the "latest"
results. Remember Corus in January? Anand was written off as tired.
And so forth, in a 6 month period everything turned around in rankings
and titles. Next year it could very well be that Kramnik wipes the
board off with Anand, or Kramnik goes totally sick and leaves Chess,
or continues on and gets whacked by Anand and his legacy is
over... Or, Anand starts playing Kramnik's game -- "will play, will
not play, and so ad nauseam"... Will talk then, as it happens.

D.

Kramnik beat Mamedyarov, fabulous stuff. I don't understand chess any more (if I ever did).

Dimi,

With all the people here that are are trying to help you see the light in regards to Kramnik's style of winning, why did you have to go and get personal and nasty with me? These are opionions and that means I don't have to be entitled to yours, or vice versa. Your ego is easily bruised.

Kramnik's style is methodical, precise, and as ovidiu stated earlier, minimalist. What it's not is flamboyant, aggressive and maximalist as Kasparov's was. As such, Kramnik's wins are not always going to look, to the rest of us, as dominating as when someone with a more attacking style of play wins big...so to speak. The point I've been trying to make is that to play and win like that, time and again, is just as imposing as the latter but does not receive the same amount of accolades. I guess that's where human nature comes in.

Today´s Kramnik-Mamedyarov was a thriller indeed. He is showing that he can win tournaments (+4 right now) and can handle the game with the queens on board as well.

Oh well, if Kramnik had shown all these qualities in Mexico, he would be the WC.

For me he still is.

Kramnik won again in the Tal Memorial. He beat Mamedyarov in the only decisive game of Round #8.
His score now stands at +4 =4, f0r 6.0/8. Kramnik has already c;inched clear first, with a round left to play. So the rest of the field is competing to Place and to Show.

Shirov is in sole 2nd Place, with +1, and has the inside track to a high Place--if he can win in the Final Round.

Carlsen, Gelfand (8 straight draws), Leko, and Jakovenko all are Even, and a win will give them a fine result.

Kamsky, Ivanchuk, and Mamedyarov are all at -1, and can finish with an Even score if they win.

Interesting Match-ups:

Ivanchuk--Kramnik
Ivanchuk is capable of beating anybody on a given day.

Carlsen--Kamsky
Carlsen has to be favored, but both are real fighters.

Jakovenko--Shirov
Just because Shirov is playing.

"Garry made a few predictions on this event when I asked. One, that Ivanchuk was too unstable to take first here and two, that Carlsen would at best reach an even score, or "maybe +1 with luck."" --Mig

==========================================
It looks like Garry's predictions were about spot on--at least with regards to Carlsen and Ivanchuk

"With these poor quality games Shirov is playing, I think they should stop inviting him to high category tournaments. His performance in European championship was nothing special either.
What's wrong with him? Is he experimenting new variations all the time or what?"

Posted by: Artin
========================================

Now is about as good a time as any for a reckoning, I supposed. No matter what happens tomorrow against Jakovenko, Shirov will finish at least with an Even score....
That demonstrates that he deserved to be invited to the tournament, and that Kramnik is the only player in the field to have outclassed him.

DOug,
You are right, It was too early to say that about Alexei. By the way, there was a time when he could beat Kramnik and Anand in a tournament like Linares. He is far from that form and it seems he is more focused on his publications and DVDs these days.
Shirov is always fun to watch even though his fire is not burning enough.
I wish him the best.

chesstraveller: With all the people here that are trying to help you see the light...

Hmm, "help me see the light..." Ok.

chesstraveller: why did you have to go and get personal and nasty with me?

Now see what you have written above and then analyze why I responded in a
certain way. Opinions are good -- respect them and you will be too.

D.

Dimi--Go away. No one here likes you.

Even if Kramnik won Mexico, he sure not going to play the rascal Topalov/Danailov again.

chesstravel: Dimi--Go away. No one here likes you.

Ok girl, you sure keep track of who likes me...

D.

Don't have too, it's quite apparent.