Greengard's ChessNinja.com

Kamsky-Topalov: Lvov is Go!

| Permalink | 135 comments

FIDE has finally broken its silence on the Lvov, Ukraine, bid for the Kamsky-Topalov candidates match, and it's good news.

President guarantees Topalov – Kamsky match

President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has announced that the World Championship Challenger Match between Veselin Topalov (Bulgaria) and Gata Kamsky (USA) will take place in Lvov, Ukraine in November 2008.

The organiser offered a prize fund of 750,000 USD and to hold the match on the “neutral” territory of Ukraine, as the players wanted to avoid Bulgaria or the USA. President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov guarantees the organiser’s offer by backing the event from his personal finances.

FIDE Presidential Board acknowledged the offer as well as the guarantee and assigned Deputy President Georgios Makropoulos to conclude the final contracts and to check the availability of the finances. The Match will be held in dates between November 26th and December 14th 2008.

This is great news, and not only because it will keep my Brooklyn neighbor Kamky and his family off ramen noodles for a while regardless of the result. Holding the match in Sofia would have been better than nothing, but there is no doubt it would have been a very uncomfortable atmosphere for Kamsky to play on Topalov's home turf.

The wording of this release and previous comments by Ilyumzhinov to the Russian press make it sound very much to me like the money from the Ukrainian sponsors has yet to materialize. But Ilyumzhinov has been willing to spend his money (Kalmykia's money, whatever) on orphaned FIDE events in the past. The 2007 candidates matches, for example. At least this time it won't be in Elista, where Topalov's manager Danailov said his man would refuse to play (actually all of Russia). And at least it won't be held in Nalchik, the site of the belatedly announced women's world championship. More than just bathroom ceilings have been attacked in Nalchik lately. It starts August 28. (This FIDE press release on the Presidential Board Meeting mentions that and more upcoming events.)

The Kamsky-Topalov match format is eight games plus rapid tiebreaks if needed, at least that is what was announced long ago. So I'm not sure why they need 18 days to hold it. Lots of rest days?


This is kind of sad. Without Ilyumzhinov money, this would not have taken place.

When players can't come up with the money and noone wants to sponsor the event, we end up relying on a rich FIDE president.

Aren't people of Kalmykia complaning about their money being invested in chess?

"Aren't people of Kalmykia complaning about their money being invested in chess?"

Umm, yes. Until several of them ended up dead. Or crumpled in an alleyway with several broken bones. Whatever... It's called Benevolent Dictatorship, comrade.


It is probably like you said. If it's the way our sport stays alive, I don't think it is good news.

xtra wrote: "If it's the way our sport stays alive, I don't think it is good news."

And this was what Kok ran against in 2006 or whenever the last FIDE election was, right?

The response to his campaign from the most sophisticated regulars here was basically, it is pathologically naive, idealistic, indeed almost American (heavens! pardon my French!), to base your campaign on something like old-fashioned ideals of honesty and good-government...when both the opposition and most of the electorate consist of Third World potentates accustomed to deciding elections by means of buying off (or killing off) the most voters.

(Koster and the other Realpolitik-ians here, please forgive me if I'm oversimplifying your position on the last FIDE election...I don't think I am.)

Come to think of it, those are mostly the same people issuing largely the same judgments about Kasparov's efforts in Russia, aren't they?

I guess if you grew up under some type, any type, of Il Duce, you learn to never question the guy who makes the trains run on time. Or who puts food on your table, as Kirsan seems to be doing for a non-trivial share of the world's GMs. (Parenthetical question: Is there any market outside the US where there is significant money available to support chess teachers through either private coaching or school-based chess programs?)

Or as a much-reviled U.S. politician (not Bush) once said in a quite similar context, "If you hold flies under a jar for a few minutes, they stop jumping around - and still don't move even after you take the jar away."

Except those few who never stopped: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/01/europe/czech.php

Yadda yadda. After losing the election, Kok had no problems joining ranks with this "despot", "murderer" and whatever else Ilyumzhinov is being called.

Comparing him to Kasparov? Interesting thought, that -- is Kasparov going to co-govern with Putin and Medvedev? It would not be the first time he makes a spectacular turnaround, but the thought still seems quite alien..

If I was Kamsky, I'd prefer $750,000 of Ilyumzhinov's money to $150,000 of a private sponsor's money, any day. Someday, there will be decent private sponsorship.

Until then, I'm happy for Kalmykian oil deposits to fund my appetite for supertournaments and candidates' matches. Aren't you?

Perhaps all of us chess enthusiastists should re-read "The Chess Artist: Genius, Obsession, and the World's Oldest Game" by J.C.Hallman. This whole adventure reads like the pages of his "novel" if that what we should call it.

Well, Kirsan's money is dirty enough, but at least the chess world has a good idea oh how Kirsan's money is generated. The money that Danailov raised is perhaps less tainted, but not by much.

The Myanmar junta is in need of some (good) PR. Maybe Kirsan should cultivate some "cooperation" with them. In exchange for a few hundred thousand Euros, FIDE could grant the Burmese players 1 GM Title, 2 IM titles, and 100 free Elo points each....

Good news for Kamsky....his gambit paid off.

750,000USD$ is not alot of money anyway. there are millions of people in the world that could themselves come up with that amount and still be in ok shape.

Yeah, bmajors, rich people are allways willing to spend their money without compensation, that's why they are so rich

great comments...the rich are so rich because there are so many poor who are poorer. That moneu could have housed and fed thousands, make that a thousand russian familys for a year but hey we get a TWELVE game match ..whoop de whoop

Well I'm sure Kamsky nd Topalov are ethical enough to turn down money they know to be of doubtful origin. Cough cough.
I vaguely remember in a magazine of many years ago reading Kasparov refusing to play for somebody's money because he was a "criminal and a crook" or something similar. Anyone remember who that was? Am not by any means suggesting k is a saint.

''....when both the opposition and most of the electorate consist of Third World potentates accustomed to deciding elections by means of buying off (or killing off) the most voters''.

I suppose the USCF and BCF are striking exemplars of moral rectitude unlike those immoral third world potentates. Pehaps we could ship Sam Sloan, Paul Truong, Susan Polgar or Raymond Keene to them to teach our virtues.

"I vaguely remember in a magazine of many years ago reading Kasparov refusing to play for somebody's money because he was a 'criminal and a crook' or something similar."

Maybe that's the reason Kasparov showed up at Kirsan's inauguration ceremony...to tell him to his face.

I doffs me lid to your Thunderbird ref, Mig.

Darius chortled: "great comments...the rich are so rich because there are so many poor who are poorer. That moneu could have housed and fed thousands, make that a thousand russian familys for a year but hey we get a TWELVE game match ..whoop de whoop"

If you are so concerned about feeding the russian poor, then make a governmental change in your country. Last I checked, it's business as usual for Putin's band of thieves.

As usual, looking for a handout whilst one sits on his hands and brains.

They need 2days for the event opening and closing ceremonies, 8 days for games and another 8 days for appeals committee ;-)

Kasparov got a mention in today's NY Times article on Putin dissenters getting airbrushed out of TV broadcasts in real time:


Maybe "The Other Russia" website can reference this as an unfunny "running gag", airbrushing its own photos to draw attention.

As for the economics of support, here's a strange mass way of looking at it. Suppose the match produces one beautiful game, and that game gives each of 7.5 million chess fans a dime's worth of pleasure. That's $750,000. Well, probably more than a dime (esp. with exchange rates nowadays:-), so maybe the "dime" is actually the fraction of value of the fans' remembering who sponsored the event. Of course it's famously hard to quantify this kind of "trickle-down" effect, but it's ultimately what makes TV/radio/Internet broadcasting of events a net gain for society on the whole, not just merchants.

John Darius: Yes, let's not invest any money in sport, literature, or the arts until we've fed every person in the world.

Meanwhile, why are you wasting time posting comments to a blog? Go out there and feed a hungry person!

every dispute here rapidly degenerates into invective and abuse and general incivility. i hope you guys realise that non-chessplayers could come across these posts and form their opinions about us accordingly. why can't people make their points politely?????????


You answered your own question. john does not want to write civily for fear of giving the public a skewed view of chessplayers.

shame indeed....people actually do have interesting points most of the time....just don't see why personal abuse is integral to the arguments....

Kamsky is very bright, make an offer that looks real. Make it close to append. Then, Ilyumzhinov guarantees the money because deadlines cannot be reached. After that, suddenly Lvov money is not there anymore. "Oh man... Sorry Mr President I really thought they had real money, but you guaranteed the match so I'll take your money instead (or Kalmykia's money)"

Every player should learn to do this... That's called checkmating the president of FIDE.

Not related to this thread, but interesting. Anyone seen this yet? WuChess.com

With a story: http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2283669,00.html

Lvov didn't put anything over on Kirsan.

Danailov transformed the proud Kirsan's Elista WCC into a clown show, embarrassing him in front of his political superiors in Russia and the chess world in general (not that he cares much about the latter). It was well worth $750K of Kirsan's money to make sure it wouldn't happen again with a match in Bulgaria.

I'll bet Kirsan was behind the Lvov bid all along; to avoid having to personally and publically out-bid his old partner-in-crime, Danailov.

Alejandro: Ehh, who said anyone was gonna sponsor it? My point was simply that 750,000$USD is NOT alot of money.

Really? Can i borrow you that money? I'll pay you soon, i promise. Jokes aside, while it may be relatively easy (you're right) to find someone who has the money, it has proven to be quite hard to find someone who has it AND want to spend it on a match.

Greg Koster, what did Danailov made wrong (I talking about this time only)? I don't like the guy at all, but he made an offer to make sure the match would be held. The offer was set to the minimum to ensure somebody else would make an higher bid. Nobody did.

The fact that nobody made a higher bid is what is so embarassing for Kirsan.

Oh please, can everybody here including Mig stop repeating that Sofia would be uncomfortable, horrible, terrible etc. What do you all think Sofia is, Guantanamo Bay? It is a European Union capital with a strong chess tradition and the experience of a few incarnations of a top international tournament already. It was perhaps wise to make some noise and attract some higher bids/other sponsors, but enough is enough! Now let's all rejoice as this promises to be a very intriguing match, plus demand on noodles will ease slightly and prices may drop after this long, crazy rally.

I dunno about that. I've been to Bulgaria and they didn't seem to have got on to soft loo paper yet.

Anyway the main point is that there's nothing wrong with Sofia except that it's the home town of Topalov and his gang of crooks. It's nothing to do with its culture or creature comforts.

The invective is necessary to make up for lack of strength of arguments.

people may not like Danailov, but he knows how to get corporate sponsorship. I am sure his money is much more cleaner then Kirsan's, if dirty at all.

MTel is about the best sponsor a chess tournament has had since what? Intel in 1995? Does IBM count for the Kasparov matches in '96-'97? A telecom company, even a relatively parochial telecom company to Bulgaria, is light years ahead of the Danneman tobacco company or Braingames.com.

I'd like to see Anand get Tata Motors or Mittal Steel in on the act, but he's not a big sponsorship chaser - he makes more than enough money in appearance fees.

Perhaps the prestige of chess has been damaged badly with the general public i.e. all the shenanigans re world championship plus best players losing to PC programs etc etc With all due respect to Sofia it would be nice to see "world cities" bidding big money to host big matches but chess has a very long way to go to fix the tarnished image......

Why do people assume that the $750,000 would have been spent on housing the homeless or feeding the hungry if it had not been spent on this match? I seriously doubt that the money was already ear-marked for those items and then Kirsan said, "Oh, I'd rather sponsor this event".

gmc, what about Corus group? MTel Masters has a long way until it reaches Corus Wijk in popularity IHMO.

I stand corrected, Corus group is indeed a bigger name than Mtel. Of course, who knows if it will still be around now that Corus was bought.

Given an 18-day schedule, it's possible that both sides might prefer a 10-game or even 12-game match.

If the format were game, game, rest (d.c. al fine), then the final games could be game, game, playoff.

@gmc - Corus is owned by Tata Steel so it is one of the biggest sponsors in the game. Any major Indian sponsor (even if it came through Anand) would also have to deal day-to-day with the AICF (India's fed) and that is not an easy task.

amen to gmc, a telecom company overcharging honest bulgarians with bad connectivity is any day preferable to mr blood diamond and co.

Tons of malarkey in this thread. A couple of points.

P1. MTEL provides better coverage in B-g better than ATT (formerly
Cingular) does here in the San Fran Bay Area. Sorry to say it,
but it's a fact.

P.2 With one notable exception -- "dirty money" do not flow into
Chess -- otherwise it would be a rich sport. How do you see the
average thug getting fascinated with Chess... That’s the tragedy
of the sport – it’s a wonderful game that appeals to
self-centered and poor nerds. The only guy who actually has
access to such funds owns the sport.

P.3 rdh -- I'm sure you have more to tell about your loo
experience in Sofia considering that it came at the top of your


If Chucky can hold versus Carlsen, I will have to cut down on the curries.

"I'm sure you have more to tell me about your loo experience in Sofia..."

Who ever said our Bulgarian chess friends are obsessed with toilets?

Greg, misquoting is lame even by geek standards.


Sorry for my carelessness (the word "me" was not in your original post) and for any suggestion that chesspersons from that region (other than Topalov, Danailov, and Ginchev, as well as Ovidiu and a handful of other DD posters) are toilet-obsessed.

greg u r a lame geek so just stfu

Anonymous u r a gutless mook so just gfym and post it on the Net as usual.

The problem with chess is not that it appeals to "poor nerds." The socioeconomic class of chess players is probably at least average (in the US). The problem is that the game lacks mass appeal.

A lot of people speaking but does anybody has proof that Kirzan money is dirty ?

I feel that today's chess is full of cold war mental relics...and on top of that, the general distrust in human skills of the computer era is aggravating the mistrust in chess.

I like playing chess and I am not a nerd. People that consider all chess players as nerds are pure idiots.

May be the only chance of chess to raise again is to concentrate our efforts on chess 960

Chess does not lack Mass Appeal. It lacks the 'I want it now and fast' appeal of the current generation of spoilt brats whose idea of 'education' is 5 minutes on the Discovery Channel.

I'm glad chess lacks that sort of appeal.

Mark: Amen to that, brother.

"I like playing chess and I am not a nerd. People that consider all chess players as nerds are pure idiots."

Wow, WhyDoYouExist, way to fight a broad generalization with a broad generalization.

>Mark: Chess does not lack Mass Appeal. It lacks the 'I want it
>now and fast' appeal of the current generation of spoilt brats...

True. It does lack "mass appeal"...

>Mark: ...whose idea of 'education' is 5 minutes on the Discovery Channel.

Mark, I'm afraid you're channeling your frustration towards one
of the few good channels remaining out there. The Discovery
Channel is the best we've got. Compare to the enormous gobbles of
crap floating out there. Everything else is crap, I agree.



Dimi, I think you're missing the point. Mark doesnt criticise the Discovery channel, merely those impatient individuals (of who I too have had a surfeit) who want instant gratification, and assume that an in-depth understanding of a subject can be obtained from a 5 minute immersion in a TV documentary. The quality (or lack therein) of the TV programme is not being debated. Even if Richard Feynman came back from the dead and started teaching Physics, 1 hour's lecture would not suffice to impart an understanding of QED to the uninitiated. The Discovery channel is indeed a good one!

Chess DOES lack mass appeal, even if intellectual "powerhouses" with a 1600 rating think that it is due to some makeshift reason.

Bottom line is, for whatever the reason, chess does not appeal to the masses. Thus the lack of money.

Thank you d_tal. In that sense, I agree.


While this blogsite is un-updated, there seems to be a 17 year old guy making impressive results again, this time in Aerosvit tourn. in Ukraina. Wow ! Viktor

Mark: in other words, you agree with what I said, except that you added a complaint about Youngsters Nowadays (which I happen to agree with, but we're talking economics, not approval or disapproval of cultural trends).

Carlsen just won another game, his rating is going to be astronomical.

Carlsen just won another game, his rating is going to be astronomical.

-- Posted by: john at June 11, 2008 13:31

Carlsen is just a god of chess.

I am really starting to think that 100 years from now the most talented chess players are going to be thought of as Capablanca, Kasparov, and Carlsen.

From our friend frogbert, of course:

01 Anand off 2798,1
02 Kramnik off 2788,0
03 Morozevich off 2787,9 +13,9
04 Carlsen off 2787,5 +22,5
05 Ivanchuk off 2778,6

After beating Eljanov today Carslen now has a live rating of 2788! Holy criminy!

Carlsen is almost higher rated than Kramnik! And probably will be by the time Foros ends. Hell, at this rate, Carlsen will be the ne World #1 by the time Foros ends!

ok, lets not get ahead of our selves. carlsen will not keep this draw one win three pace up. but if he ranks n2 on the next list, that would have to be the greatest achivment by any junior player ever.

Carlson is terrific, but please in a hundred or a thousand years I hope they never forget about Paul Morphy who I will always believe was the greatest talent that ever pushed a pawn...god bless all chessplayers..and others too.

If Carlsen beat Shirov tomorrow (with white), he will be the #2 rated player in the world at age 17 years and 6 months.

The previous record holder, Kasparov, was 19 and 5 months when he became #2 in the world.

I'm sure there's a good reason Mig is failing to update his blog during this tournament.

Go Magnus!

The games between computers are the highest-level games ever. Why not comment on them? People comment on races between cars after all.

Not much news on the chess Giants tournament. This is a rapid event here is a game from the first day 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bg4 a6 4 Ba5 Nf6 5 0-0 Be7 6 Re1 b5 7 Bb3 0-0 8 a4 b4 8 d3 d6 1/2 1/2 Adams-Sargissian. There were also the following draws Aronian-Akopian 10 move slav exchange, Akopian- Aronian 10 move slav exchange, Sargassian - Adams 9 move QID Perhaps its connected with the tragic death of 28 year old GM Asrian?

Yep- games were postponed on the 10th and 11th of June, and all games involving Armenians on the 9th were agreed as quick draws, as their minds were obviously elsewhere (his death was announced just before round 1). The Armenian team seem a very close knit bunch and I'm sure this has been a terrible shock to all of them. Hopefully they are up to playing a few special games and dedicate them to him.

Thoughts with his family and friends.

With his unmatched speed of ascendance, Carlsen may soon render the
upcoming World Title matches a joke. An archaic one. Cause by the time
they end, he may be solidly #1. And based on what I have seen so far,
he doesn't seem to be a temporary event.


Yes, the only thing surprising about Carlsen is that he is unsurprising. Can't rule anything out now. If he finished the rest of the tournament with straight wins I wouldn't bat an eyelid. His opening knowledge can also be improved. Can't see anyone stopping him then. Even now, Anand could drop him a line re anti-Catalan play!

Agree with D. Kamsky and Topalov? Bah. Yesterday's news. Just seed Carlsen into a WC final with Anand already. Norway is full of money, let hold it in Oslo for 2 million Euros and we can start move onto more important topics like comparing Carlsen to Fischer and Kasparov etc.

"...and we can start move onto more important topics like comparing Carlsen to Fischer and Kasparov etc."

How dare you not mention by name the great Morphy from whose bottom shine the rays of true chess gen...blah blah blah

All joking aside, Carlsen just keeps producing the results. So much so he has practically silenced the "oh it can't last..", "..flash in the pan", "..remember when Pono...". Pretty damned impressive.

Carlsen just beat Shirov in zeitnot. Amazing! Moves to #2 in live rating, as I understand.

Carlsen can beat anybody. How? I will spend the whole weekend for his games!
You surved when Carlsen will be world #1. Can you summarize it and to see who is right?

I don't consider myself an MC fanboy, but Carlsen is currently playing tournament chess at a level that is plain scary. His endgame technique has improved tremendously over the past 2 years where he is still a threat in totally innocuous positions. The van Wely game for instance - I would have preferred the double bishops in a heartbeat and thought that black had the better chances! Plus he possesses a fantastic sense of practical OTB play. How many times has he presented his opponent with the most difficult of mazes in the middlegame? It's no coincidence that everyone he's played with so far has gotten into zeitnot.

If he improves his opening repertoire another level...he could be the world's first 2900 player. At this point however I still think he needs more matchplay before he can be considered better than Anand/Kramnik. But it's just a matter of time...

The shrill hyperbole from Carlsen fans is amusing.

Magnus rises to #2 in the live rating.

Now, after Shirov's win, he is just 5.9 points away from #1. His win over Shirov gave him 4.7 points. Obviously, Carlsen has a chance to get to #1 by the end of this tournament. Perhaps, even as little as +2 the rest of the way is sufficient?

I'd cool down the Carlsen enthusiasm just a wee bit. Sure, he's doing very well, but he hasn't proven himself to be the equal of Kramnik/Anand yet. What he's currently doing is essentially pulling a "Morozevich"--beating a series of lesser players.

Of course, he may still reach #1 in the world rankings.

Mmmm, macuga, you say this because this year in Wijk aan Zee and Linares? Because it looked so much like Anand and Kramnik... He may still get some downs, but he's extremely impressive. Each tournament he seems stronger. In Foros not even Ivanchuk was able to scarce a little (yes, that impressive Ivanchuk who beat everybody not so long ago at the Mtel Masters). But Karjakin is also impressive, looking forward for their last round game.

I think what is so impressive about Carlsen is that he is not "pulling a Morozovitch" He is not winning through massive opening preperation or strikingly original play but from balanced positions applying consistent pressure until the opponent cracks. It is the psychology of an opponent who keeps pushing and hunting for the win because he "knows" he is a better player. His game against Volokitin will be interesting as this is an opponent who has given him trouble in the past. Even if he wins 2 or 3 more games it is not clear that he will take the No 1 spot in the July ratings as the tournament does not fall to be included. However I have a feeling they will rate it if Carlsen gets No 1 and it would be great for chess to see him take the no 1 spot.

One difference between Carlsen and Anand/Kramnik is that he is a more flexible opening player with white - playing e4 and d4 with equal facility. The question mark is his black defence(s) to e4 which dont (yet) seem as reliable as those of Anand and Kramnik.

thats nonsense macuga. is shirov or chuck lesser? its nothing like the competition moro is facing wich is obviously subpar.

Anyone claiming that Magnus is pulling a "Morozevich" (winning a lot vs weaker players) should really open his/hers eyes.

Carlsen's Elo performance in 2008 has reached 2839, and that in 47 games. Now he's +13 against 2730 opposition, and with a draw percentage well below 50%.

Morozevich's Elo performance in 2008 (until 1st of June) is 2826 in 18 games vs 2683 opposition.

'nuff said.

Look at this table from http://members.aon.at/sfischl/cl2008.txt (before Aerosvit started)

No one plays more than Magnus, no one wins more than Magnus and few play so many games vs so tough opposition as Magnus.

He's not *exactly* comparable to Morozevich, of course, since he's playing at a higher level, but my point is that he has yet to prove himself in a match situation vs. (top-5-level) opposition.


What about Carlsen's 8-games rapid match vs Leko just recently where he won without being defeated once?

He had never beaten Leko prior to the match...

Rapid chess, emperor.

And before Carlsen fans get their panties in a twist... I think Carlsen is a great player, will probably be WC, blah blah blah yadda yadda hero worship.

All I'm saying is we don't have enough evidence to tell if he's truly at the level of Kramnik/Anand yet.


What about his crushing win with the black pieces vs Kramnik in Corus 2008?

But you're right, we don't have enough evidence to conclude whether he's stronger or weaker than Anand and Kramnik (in a match).

Just imagine if Carlsen was 30 years old. Then I could probably think like you do. But he's 17. That is just twisted.

As a Carlsen fan I appreciate the likes of macuga. Their mantra, though probably wrong, serves to lower expectations and take pressure off our man.

"He's not *exactly* comparable to Morozevich, of course, since he's playing at a higher level, but my point is that he has yet to prove himself in a match situation vs. (top-5-level) opposition."

Really? When was the last time Anand "proved himself" in that way? I like matches too, but I think we can safely say that Anand is a pretty decent player in spite of recent match successes.

I'd think that both Anand and Kramnik would be the favourite in a match against Carlsen, I do still think that, but as amazing as it is I am not completely sure. Against anybody else in the world, I would probably consider Carlsen as favourite.

It's simply not a coincidence that he gets this kind of results again and again and again. And he seems to get better and better by the day.

Hey hey hey...what is all this critisism of Morozovitch , who by the way could beat all of you in a blindfolded simul giving pawn and move odds. Magnus maybe WC one day, so may Morozevitch and none of any of your pathetic opinions amount to a pile of dog shiit. So chew on that you little weaklings.

"in spite of LACK OF recent match successes"

I would put Carlsen above Kramnik and below Anand.
Anand > Carlsen > Kramnik

"in spite of LACK OF recent match successes"

Success in "recent" matches is predicated on having "recent" matches. A better phrasing would have been to drop "successes" at the end in your sentence.

If you're interested, Anand of course has the superior overall match record in comparison to Kramnik, as I detailed here: http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt/2008/03/anand_wins_linares_2008.htm

Has anyone got easy access to stats on games between Kramnik and Anand (scores in classical and rapid taking into account what colours they played) ?

What are the average scores for black and white in a single armageddon game ?

Oh, the rapid stats are in the footnotes.

"Success in "recent" matches is predicated on having "recent" matches."

Yes, that was my point when replying to macuga. Anand has had no recent matches and yet somehow he does not have to "prove himself" by winning matches the way Carlsen apparently has.

Kramnik has nothing to do with it.

John Darius: You come across as an intensely likeable fellow.

Thanks Zombre.

According to that link, Anand has never lost a classical time controle game with white against Kramnik (is this really correct?)

Also, they have played 51 classical games since 1989 with Kramnik having had the white pieces in 30 of those !

I was a little surprised to see the rapid stats, I would have thought that Anand had a bigger edge.

I am liking my 2,00 odds on Kramnik winning the match more and more.

I guess it is a win-win situation for an Anand fan; Vishy wins or there is money in the pocket.

Its ridiculous how easy is it is to beat the online books on chess.

Norsemen: my only "mantra" is that it's nice to have match evidence before proclaiming Carlsen better than Anand or Kramnik. If such a small amount of uncertainty/ability to withhold judgment bothers you, then there's an excellent new religion I can recommend to you.

Hello Norseman and thankyou, I am getting invloved in poker now so I will not be following chess anymore. I appreciate the comment as I try to enjoy chess as I learned that at best I was a IM and if I could have made a living at that I would have. I spent many years on the circuit and realize that real chess players are some of the best people to know and be around and I will miss those such as yourself. I hope Magnus fullfills his potential and also Naka although I don't see him devoting his enrgy to i at the highest levels needed. Its a great game with great players and great fans, thanks to sites like this and chessdom.com it will be hard to stay away..wish you all the best. Hopefully there will be a 100 round swiss where we all end up with giant skittle rooms and bigger bars with 24 hour restaurants.

Is this blog like...dead?

Yes, and just like dead people it leaves an unpleasant odor.

I love these sort of comments :

"...I learned that at best I was a(sic)IM..."

Without, of course, actually being an IM. It's funny how chess clubs contain people all too willing to expound on how they could have been a GM/IM/World Champ if only they had the time and had been trained and had started earlier etc etc etc.

Yet usually they are at a loss to explain why they haven't even managed an FM title or why they just hung a pawn to the 1650 in the corner...

"Yes, and just like dead people it leaves an unpleasant odor."

The skunk smells its own hole first.

I am at best THE world champ. I don't believe in negative thinking.

"I don't believe in negative thinking."

Posted by: chesshire cat at June 15, 2008 10:36

Oh yes you do, otherwise you would have said "I only believe in positive thinking."

Good one dcp23. Very good one!

Macuga is a clown. Carlsen is beating the likes of Topalov and Kramnik, and this hater claims that he is building his rating by beating "lesser players"! These two men eclipsed 2800, and Magnus beat them both with ease from the black side! He also is scalping players such as Ivanchuk and Shirov, and these certainly will not soon be forgotten names in the annals of chess. In short, macuga's statement is absurd.



Carlsen is 3 (!) points away from making no. 1 after a win with black against Nisipeanu.

C'mon ... isn't someone going to give us a message about how Nakamura or Karjakin would be so much better than Carlsen, but for the terrible injustice of fewer top invitations?

Carlsen is beating lesser players alright. Lesser than himself!

He will dominate the chess scene long. Thanks God he is much more of a positive person than Kasparov, and so maybe we will have a unified chess world some day-some day very near.

dcp, I swear revenge. but until then :)

"C'mon ... isn't someone going to give us a message about how Nakamura or Karjakin would be so much better than Carlsen, but for the terrible injustice of fewer top invitations?" yeah. Nakamura would be 2950 by now if they gave him more invites, adjusting for age.

This blog is a joke. Magnus Carlsen in making history but Mig won't write about it.


Why bother with arguments when Magnus' pieces are doing all the talking necessary?

But where is Mig?
Surely we could use some coverage of Aerosvit or maybe the U.S. Women's Championship in Tulsa.

I'd like to see his spin on the deciding Armageddon game.

Mig has also not announced the upcoming Kasparov appearance on the Charlie Rose show. So it's a safe bet that he has more important things to take care of than this blog. He IS married and recently had a serious illness in his ear/head. It should be obvious by now that this blog is no longer updated daily anyway. I'm sure he'll be back...

If Mig has more important things to do than update his blog -- it's been two weeks now -- then maybe he shouldn't write a chess blog called "Daily Dirt."

Anyway, I read Susan Polgar's blog more now. It truly is updated every day.

Polgar's blog is updated every day, but is it worth the hundreds of comments she "anonymously" posts, like the one last week that read "Susan has contributed more to chess than Tal ever did"?! Not worth it for this cowboy. Mig may be a dutiful serf but he's no fraud.

Silences are not new here, but changes are coming soon. Mig will rethink and retool the blog, just as soon as Garry gives the go-ahead. Meanwhile we can join in welcoming the bundle of joy, Garry (or Garika) Kasparov-Kimovich "KK" Greengard. Think of that -- Garika is a cool kinda name.

There was only ONE thing that Tal ever had over Sue Polgar....until now.

I'm checking out chessvibes instead of the daily dirt now.


Thanks for sharing. Your many invaluable contributions over the years will be sadly missed.

hehe. Koster has his moments..

I'm stunned that you failed to cite any of your graduate work in your post, Maliq.

Macuga argues that Carlsen has not yet proven he can defeat Anand or Kramnik in a match. What's absurd about that?

Kasparov and Topalov went to a lot of trouble proving that even a significantly higher rating is no guarantee of match success.

Since we are using circular arguments, one might also be justified in bringing forth the argument that beating or tying Kramnik in a classical match based on his past performances of 2 wins, 3 losses and 2 draws has been more the rule than the exception.

Okay d_tal, then you automatically support the argument that Kasparov wasn't a true champion between Seville and New York/Lyon, yes? If you wish to bury Kramnik for a drawn match (you'd bury him for any excuse handy, but no matter), just enforce the logic across the board and we'll see how pretty it looks.

Not at all, I was just replying to Koster in kind. I mean his constant drip-drip attrition of Kasparov and Topalov and the ingratiating hero worship of Kramnik annoyingly inserted into every single post he can manage to. Fair enough comment right? The topic is Carlsen's potential, and his lack of matches therein. A snide remark about Kasparov and Topalov while stroking Kramnik surely merits a response that points to his lack of pedigree in the very thing that he is being stroked in..

I've never seen a "Kramnik-stroking" post from Koster, only a series of posts in response to a clutch of Daily Dirt contributors (Mig included), who have spent nearly eight years trying to prove that Kramnik's 2000 World Championship win branded him a loser for life. No strokers here, just defenders.

Looks like Carlsen still needs +2 in his three remaining matches to get to #1. I guess we won't see it this time.

Btw why is Anand losing 5 points? is it because of the Bundesliga games?


Draws against Wojtaszek and McShane: -5 points. Bundesliga indeed, he did not play any other rated games.

I, for one, can't stand people who are constantly blowing kisses toward their favorite player.

Clubfoot, how come you have lost the ability to read? Take off your rose-tinted glasses and still your beating love lorn heart for a minute.

Twitter Updates

    Follow me on Twitter



    About this Entry

    This page contains a single entry by Mig published on June 2, 2008 1:34 PM.

    Carlsen-Leko Miskolc Rapid was the previous entry in this blog.

    Carlsen Flames Foros is the next entry in this blog.

    Find recent content on the main index or look in the archives to find all content.