Greengard's ChessNinja.com

Kasparov on Carlsen on Train

| Permalink | 70 comments

If this looks like it was recorded on a train with a cell phone that's only because it was recorded on a train with a cell phone. But I sort of like the effect. Except the part about not being able to hear him too well. I tried to boost the audio and filter out the background noise a bit in this version. Macauley heroically blitzed out a transcript while doing his Grand Slam Final coverage in Bilbao! Gracias, compadre. There are a few inevitable typos ("rooting interest") and guesses in there that I'll try to fix up in a transcript here later, but there are a few blips in the audio that will probably keep us all guessing. Nothing critical from what I can tell.

Feel free to distribute this as you like. There will likely be a press conference with both Garry and Magnus in Oslo in a few days.


Enjoyed the intimate interview and setting. It's great for Kasparov to give back to the future of top level chess. It must be sweet to hang out regularly with a chess titan Mig. I would enjoy hearing any stories about the chess personalities of the past that you get second hand.

Kasparov seems so nervous, always darting his eyes about, twirling his pen or playing with his nose.

"I would enjoy hearing any stories about the chess personalities of the past that you get second hand."

They're not second hand. Mig has been a chess journalist for a long time, met many chess personalties of the past, and his stories are first hand! ;)

Where's the typo in "rooting interest"?

It says "routing interest", should be rooting.

He's not nervous, just a weird situation trying to talk to a cell phone held up in his face. Plus, we lost two takes to the blooper reel when first I, then he, started cracking up about his glasses. Which were first on, then off, then I made a joke about them. Anyway, it's probably as funny for him as it is for me to be pretending to do a formal interview together.

It does seem clear that the "ego proxy effect" is as clear as we imagined in the other GK-MC thread. Carlsen's loss to Kramnik hurt him almost as if he'd taken the 1-0 himself. I imagine that works the other way as well. Carlsen's opponents will feel a little extra juiced, a chance to beat Carlsen and Kasparov by proxy in a way. Maybe Karpov can coach Karjakin or another young star and they can continue their battles as coaches, as so often happens in other sports.

"rooting interest" typo fixed. Gracias amigo. Nice work on the sound.

Oh wow, so Magnus has access to the GK opening database, which is being constantly updated! What was that novelty they discovered in Croatia?? And imagine having Gary Kasparov on the other end of the phone to give advice during a tourney. Omigawd. OK, Anand prepare early...

Where was the train going?

It seems to me that Kasparov has a desperate need to feel relevant, to feel important, to be in the public eye.

As the world's best chess player, he certainly had all that - at least within the circle that mattered to him.

Kasparov then failed to win comparable respect within the field of politics. So now he's working with Carlsen in order to (in his own mind, though I'm sure he won't be shy about publicizing it) be able to take credit for Carlsen's eventual ascent to the world chess title.

Carlsen and his dad seem very stable, grounded people - they have nothing to lose from the interaction. They do say the training is "expensive" - I would have advised them to strike a harder bargain, since Kasparov really had no alternative at all.

I'm not sure why you make it sound like something horrid to want to be relevant. Are you happily irrelevant? Is anyone? Of course Garry wants to be relevant. He said as much, exactly that in fact, when he retired from pro chess to enter Russian politics. If he were running around Red Square in the nude just to get attention your tone might make more sense. But a retired former world champion coaching a young chess star? As it stands you seem to be criticizing someone for wanting to use their talents to achieve something. That he hasn't quietly turned to dust to please his critics really shouldn't surprise anyone.

As for Garry's alternatives for gaining attention, you might have noticed that just about anything he's done in the past 25 years this side of brushing his teeth lefty gets a lot of attention in the chess world. The news he was playing Karpov got more mainstream coverage than any other chess news this year from what I can tell. (Though you can blame Karpov, too, if you like.) If the attention he receives bothers you, buck the trend by ignoring him instead of criticizing him for not vanishing.

The train was going back to NYC from Washington DC, where we had meetings. The non-profit Foundation for Democracy in Russia, which Garry founded a few years ago, is based in DC. He has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars that have been directly distributed to small human rights groups and actions in Russia, mostly going to indy media, event organization, legal defense, hospital bills, and in some cases food and shelter for the families of opposition activists jailed or killed. But of course since he hasn't magically become the leader of an authoritarian country that doesn't have real elections, he's a total failure. Or so I read here regularly.

I asked him to be nice to Macauley so I'm hoping there will be more (and much better quality) video of him from Valencia. Unless he loses, in which case he may actually eat the first journalist to ask him a question.

Kasparov and politics in Russia, Foundation for Democracy in Russia. Sounds like somebody in Washington DC had this idea, not Kasparov. Come on, be real, who will vote for Kasparov in Russia. Russians regard Kasparov as (Лицо кавказкой национальности) a person of Caucasian nationality. There is no way that Kasparov can have any support among Russian population and all talk about Kasparov and politics in Russia is a big myth, an illusion, nonsense. He is just a puppet in the hands of Western powers.

¨Kasparov then failed to win comparable respect within the field of politics. ¨

If you meant Kasparov should be the number one politic for a 20 years period i guess you might be right , but with that statement you are showing lack of understanding both in chess and politics.

- Not to mention that you felt your comment was so relevant that you copy-pasted it from the previous thread. You must like attention too, huh?

Though I do probably agree with some of what youre saying - thinking back on his obnoxious autobio from the 80's, I think it's fair enough to originally get the impression of an incredibly self-absorbed person. But he has mellowed.

I hope that all of you nasty people notice that by politely asking a simple question like I did resulted in a polite and simple response. So, that's how you should do it.

Who is coaching who is the real question, as kasparov has a match in a couple of days... or is karpov coaching bologan too?

Even though there might be some relevance in my message, its more a funny-like thing, so don't take it wrong people...

"It does seem clear thatthe "ego proxy effect" is as clear as we imagined in the other GK-MC thread."

Any relationship to the english language is purely coincidental - to misquote Fischer. Still Kaspy the defender of the poor and needy battling to keep alive the tiny flame of democracy in a despotic Russia. Its enough to warm the cockles of your heart! Bless him. I almost feel sorry for the likes of Anand and Topalov who can only watch helplessly as Garry gives the plucky young Norwegian access to his death ray database. Aye this passing of such mighty wisdom surely marks a turning point in chess history. I see, now, that the real, the worthy successor to Kasparov was not that cowardly fiend Kramnik nor the aging pretender Anand but this radiant youthful viking. All hail Magnus!

Let it be known that a CIA puppet presidency is a finely-paid position held by dozens of world "leaders" presently. Historically, the corporatocracy lets you loot the country up to several billions so long they may vacuum the remaining trillions.

I'm available to teleprompter-read for mere millions, if any CIA recruiters are reading this...

Wouldn't it be cool to be on a train and see Mig and Garry?

I hope you guys weren't in the quiet car!

> Not to mention that you felt your comment was so relevant that you copy-
> pasted it from the previous thread. You must like attention too, huh?

Actually, I didn't repost - I'm as surprised to see it here as you are. Perhaps Mig reposted so that he could respond to it, or perhaps I have a fan, or an alter ego who thinks just as I do, word for word.

"death ray database". That was funny.

Why is everyone so keen on psychoanalyzing Garry?

I would give a title like this, "(Self) Spotted On Train - Chess Trainer & Potty Trainer"!!

Hey, guys, take it easy on Mig. Kaspy is his boss, after all. And we know that Kaspy is not the most "democratic" of guys, as indicated by his well-publicized political "ideas" and actions at the chess board.

So, what is Mig supposed to do? Tell the truth? Confront the man who puts food on his table? Ask tough questions?

Agreed. Nothing really wrong about speculation but sometimes it definitely gets out of hand.

We enjoy the great chess of Fischer and Kasparov, but their fanatical devotion to chess will show inevitably itself in other areas. Opportunity cost.
This doesn't imply that they should not be challenged when they are wrong, but rather that there is a price to be paid for ultra-high quality chess that one must bear in mind when criticizing the players in other areas

You just hold on there Luke! You have a lot of gall trying to claim any high ground! You are one of if not THE most negative individuals on this board. Back up and back off!

I smell monkey poo coming from your post.

I just love it here, despite the occasional bile, no sarcasm implied. Or perhaps the bile is the charm :). What splendid spontaneity!

Mig, how does one find out information about those camps that Kasparov has run in NYC? Like the ones for strong juniors.



Kasparov's training camps are sponsored by the Kasparov Chess Foundation and organized in conjunction with the US Chess Federation. Among others, Ray Robson, Sam Shankland and Alisa Melekhina have benefited from his training. Unfortunately, it is only for Americans not for Canadians.


You can contact Mikhail Khodarkovsky at the Kasparov Chess Foundation for more details. (I might have got the spelling wrong.)

This blog should have education at its core. I therefore introduce the term "dung monkey" to the "monkey poo" affair.

dung monkey

1. One who flings poop, particularly monkeys.

2. A person who reminds you of number one above.

3. Slang for someone whom you find obnoxious.


Step three, say that the person who refuted your spurious bs isn't an acceptable source because he knows the subject and subject matter of your spurious bs too well. Don't address the issues. Rinse and repeat. Must be a blissful life.

I'd be fascinated to hear even a shred of this "truth" I'd be out telling about him if I didn't work for Garry. So I'm simply lying about what the foundation I work for does? Why would I bother? You think Garry's desperate for the support of the Dirt readership and I'm here to brainwash you? Ah, or maybe I've been brainwashed, too. It's all so clear now...

Interesting that ChessBase didn't put up the Kasparov interview. I guess my mentioning ChessVibes (Peter submitted the first two questions) at the start made it toxic. Either that or it wasn't big enough news to top a review of Nunn's endgame book and Negi in Paris. Or maybe the train noise was too much.

"Either that or it wasn't big enough news to top a review of Nunn's endgame book and Negi in Paris."

Good one, Mig. I liked the way Chessbase referred to the 15th ranked JUNIOR Negi 2615 as a super talent. :rolling eyes: Does that make #4 in the world Carlsen 2772 a super duper talent?

All my respect to Kasparov for his fantastic career at the top of the chess world. He is a very carismatic man, with a rare combination of toughness, disciplin and intelligence.

However, I dont think his idea of westernising Russia is very beneficial.

Kasparovs political liberalism was tried in Russia in the 1990ies and resulted in chaos.
The fact is that Russia is a very different culture, since it in the middle ages were ruled by muslim rulers, descendants of Djengis Khan.
All countries, including democracies, are ruled by an elite. The elites in Russia, centrally in Moscow and also locally in the districts, are by no means ready for democracy as we see it in the west.
Also USA are ruled by an elite, which is confirmed by the fact that we almost got 28 consecutive years of clinton/bush rule. Only the savior Obama could stop Hillary Clinton from winning. But while the elite in USA has learned to controll the the two parties, the financial system and the media after centuries of adjustment, Russias elite cant trust to stay in power by using similar means. Its just to risky to let the masses have have their say without having stiffer restrictions.

Please, Mig's busy trying to overthrow the Russian government. If it weren't Kasparov the various U.S. agencies would find someone else. Might as well be Kasparov - if only for good quips & entertainment's sake.

I know you didn't intend to, but you come close to making a point. It's that various leaders in the West like Kasparov and/or his views and support him and/or his efforts isn't the same as Kasparov endorsing them or supporting them. He has human rights awards from US neocon groups and Danish liberal newspapers. That they have chosen him doesn't mean he is choosing, let alone is controlled by or is beholden to, them.

I know most of this guff has everything to do with those who have disliked him since his chess career, so I don't despair too much that everyone is this cynical. Doing this work has shown me much the opposite. Talking with the Green movement people in Iran, opposition groups in Venezuela and China, makes it hard to be cynical. Of course in the eyes of each state in question they are all the same famous "tools of the West" for wanting democracy. Or to not be arrested or killed for talking about it.

I'm sure Kasparov is his own man. But he's the kind of man the Alphabet Soupers like also for good reason: he wishes to overthrow the Putin government and replace it with something that *de facto* - and I emphasize this: DE FACTO serves U.S. corporate interests.

Ethnic Russians generally understand this, don't want a half-Armeni half-Jew ruling them Slavs, ya know?

Putin's Russia is little more than a shill for corporate interests. He comes out and talks tough every once in a while, shakes down a Shell or a BP, but the money keeps flowing out. Thanks to the energy boom, far more Russian capital has moved west under Putin's gang than Yeltsin and his own merry band of thieves could have dreamed of. Putin's Russia is little more than an updated version of Mussolini's dreamed-of corporate state, and they are only nationalists for public consumption. Very good ones at that.

The thought that current US-Russia policy-setters like Mike McFaul, who has known Garry for many years and was hanging out at Stanford for most of the past decade, are all lackeys to [insert US corporate interest conspiracy names here] is pretty silly. I'm all for generic rants about The Man, and I surely wish for less corporate influence in government. But knowing things is good too, and every case is different. It's been hard just getting Russia on the US radar, let alone fielding requests to serve US interests.

As for the ethnic stuff, that's a bridge to cross far in the future. Fine for talk and distraction, but without much relevance on the ground at the moment. It's not like they have to be that subtle with total media control. The anti-US stuff alone on TV is toxic enough to poison a generation, which is a shame.

I find fascinating that to this days every person who wanted to discredit Garry´s work in politics has used (almost) the same argument.
They always say something like: ¨nobody knows him there¨ or ¨people don´t even know that he exists¨ , which i find truly remarkable because those kind of statements are proof of the kind of goverment they have in place.
In a truly democratic environment Garry would have popular recognition of his political ideas and a little percentage of support even in the worst scenarios .
Having said that, IMHO he shouldn´t go so easely against Chavez , the situation is kinda complicated there , i don´t want to bring the subject at all but he should remember that many countries of South America had USA-supported dictatorships previous to the current ones . Venezuela is filled with oil ,and that makes a whole different picture , USA´s intentions for the country may be even less democratic than Chavez´s dictatorship .

It's very simple guys: if Kaspy couldn't deal withe the politics of FIDE, how the hell is he going to deal with REAL politics?

The man is driven, but dense. Corageous, but uneducated. Ambitious, but incapable.

He has the right to try, though...

He might be dense, uneducated and incapable but he can probably spell "courageous".

Irv, take it easy. Whatever point you are trying to make gets lost when you start ranting like that.

@Manu: There was an interesting analysis of repression level vs official govt. popularity in the former Soviet countries recently. Basically it showed that the countries with the most brutal, anti-democratic governments polled those same governments as the most popular. All the freer countries had lower govt. popularity. Now, you can either believe this is because people there really do love their autocratic governments and lack of a free press (and in most cases, terrible economies), or that while people in Ukraine really don't like theirs at least feel free to say so!

It's fair to say that if you have unemployment over 10%, an avg. life-expectancy under 60, and a government polling at 70+% popularity, there's an excellent chance you're in a place where you'll be arrested and/or beaten up if you criticize the regime. Ah, found it: http://tr.im/yDbk

Exactly! I have talked to many Russian friends (well educated people) and all they would hate to see Kasparov to be a president. They understand why Kasparov makes noise about "democracy" in Russia. I love Kasparov as a chess player, but hate to see him as a puppet in the hands of politicians.

Oh my god , did you look at the videos? What a sad spectacle , i hope democracy finds its way into that mess.

While the interpretation by Mig and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty makes sense (people are afraid of criticizing autocratic governments), it could also be that some people prefer relative order and safety (even at the prize of freedom of speech) to the chaos of "transition to democracy". One can only poll this in the second case, a related question to Ukrainians might be "Do you want the Soviet Union back?" It wouldn't surprise me if close to 50% (the pro-Russian part of country and population) answered yes.

And low government satisfaction in Ukraine is largely due to disappointment about Yushchenko and Tymoshenko, former allies during the Orange Revolution, now bitter enemies. Could history repeat itself in the (currently hypothetical) case of Kasparov's 'broad' coalition taking over in Russia?

But little do I know about ex-Soviet countries, so what about my home country Germany: How many East Germans are still 100% happy about reunification?

The important question is not wheter you like your goverment or not , the question is: Are you afraid to express yourself? Why?

¨Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.¨

A little extremist but very true , at least IHMO and experience.

Generally I agree with you, I just wonder if "the average Ukrainian/Russian/East German on the streets" agrees with your philosophical quote (is educated? informed? intelligent? enough to agree).

BTW, whom are you quoting? Your own experience is presumably (only) from Argentina, but the quip would, just as another example, also apply to the USA post-9/11 !!?

I think is from Franklin , not sure , since i heard it from Oesterheld way before 9/11.

Mig wrote:

"It's fair to say that if you have unemployment over 10%, an avg. life-expectancy under 60, and a government polling at 70+% popularity, there's an excellent chance you're in a place where you'll be arrested and/or beaten up if you criticize the regime. Ah, found it: http://tr.im/yDbk"

Pure propaganda.

The site Mig links to is funded by the USA (they say so themselves "RFE/RL is funded by the U.S. Congress through the Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG)."), that's why this "free press" is not covering China, the poster child for oppression.!


Yes it's Benjamin Franklin - in the meantime I became curious and put the whole quote in Google, which helps ,:) . Google (and/or Wikipedia) also informed me that Oesterheld was "an Argentine journalist and writer of graphic novels" disappeared and presumed dead in 1977 (i.e. during the military government).

"Having said that, IMHO he shouldn´t go so easily against Chavez"

"USA´s intentions for the country may be even less democratic than Chavez´s dictatorship"

It is too easy to justify Chavez´ regimen by implying that US have worse intentions.

I can’t see how you can use the Franklin quote and defend Chavez at the same time. Here in Venezuela, personal freedom and rights are diminishing together with free speech on a daily basis.

Could it be that all the help Argentina and their President and Presidenta have received from Chaves is coloring your view?

Not at all , like i said it is only my humble opinion and is only based on my personal view of the situation in your country .
If you read carefully i was just trying to say that Chavez is a completely different kind of dictator than Putin , i was not defending him or his methods .
But i think you would agree with me that USA's intentions for your country are not the best to say the least.

I can’t help but asking myself what the hidden agenda is here ? I mean : what the heck ? Kasparov suddenly turns into some nice old granddad adopting a younger talent ? Why should he do that? What is the benefit for him personally ? There has never been an example before of a retired world champ suddenly turning into coaching his potential successor… And rightly so. If you want to become the greatest you should achieve it in a way “on your own”. By this I don’t mean that you should not have trainers and seconds. But your achievement shouldn’t have been partly prepared by the previous great one in line. Just imagine for instance, Kramnik being coached by Karpov or Anand by Spassky or Topalov by Korchnoi (I am just giving examples) or even Kasparov by Tal.
So according to me, GK is in it for the money or he has found a subtle way to leave his mark on chess for many years to come. Because a future WC title of Carlsen will always be partly considered as a shared achievement of Kasparov.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to be cynical and I think GK is truly one of the greatest of all time. But I can’t help finding this coaching thing somewhat fishy.

"There has never been an example before of a retired world champ suddenly turning into coaching his potential successor"

Huh? Apparently you know little about chess history AND you haven't followed this blog recently. What about Botvinnik?? This is from Wikipedia:

"In 1963 Botvinnik founded his own school within the Soviet coaching system, and its graduates include world champions Anatoly Karpov, Garry Kasparov and Vladimir Kramnik, and other top-class players such as Alexei Shirov, Vladimir Akopian and Jaan Ehlvest. ... Kasparov presents Botvinnik almost as a kind of father figure, going some way towards balancing the common public perception of Botvinnik as dour and aloof ... Botvinnik was still playing a major teaching role in his late 70s, when Kramnik entered the school, and made a favorable impression on his pupil."

As far as "benefit for him [Kasparov] personally" is concerned: besides money and passing on his legacy, Stefan Loeffler on schach.twoday.net has an original take on recent news. The title of the corresponding piece is "Kasparov's new coach" - to prepare him for his matches against Karpov. He also mentions/suggests that Carlsen had a similar role in Anand's match preparation against Kramnik. Of course hard to determine the irony content of this, 50-90% ?

"There has never been an example before of a retired world champ suddenly turning into coaching his potential successor… And rightly so. If you want to become the greatest you should achieve it in a way “on your own”"


The essential economic stats were even worse in the Yeltsin era. Russia does have its problems, but overall the quality of life seems to be considerably better compared to the 90s. The people in Ukraine have every right to be unhappy with their government, as it is a poorer country than Russia. Russian leadership can at least brag of increasing the quality of life of an average citizen, the Ukrainian leaders can't do the same. The "democracy" in Russia and Ukraine in the 90s has led to demographic results that are comparable to what some people would consider genocide. After that, the relatively stability of the Putin era seemed almost like a blessing to many.

"Kasparov suddenly turns into some nice old granddad adopting a younger talent ? Why should he do that? What is the benefit for him personally ? "

Money?! Just a wild guess.

Yeah well I did know about Botvinnik. But in a way that was different wasnt it? I mean there we were talking about a chess school and not some private tutoring. So it would be similar to the situation we are facing now if all of a sudden Kasparov decides to tutor and Karjakin and Giri and Carlsen and Vachier-Lagrave and Radjabov and so on ...

I mean Botvinnik was not exclusively coaching Kasparov and trying to turn him into his priviliged successor!!

SO I still have the feeling that this Kasparov-Carlsen duo is never seen before in chess history and that it something that is not really honest. I have a feeling that is more about GK himself than about MC. Because if GK was really concerned about teaching something to the new generation why would he reserve that to MC exclusively.

So it is either really just about the money (too bad if that is the case) or it is about trying to "cash in morally" on a future WC title of Carlsen like I described before. In words: "if Carlsen beats Anand or Kramnik or Topalov or whoever in a WC match it is partly I (GK) who did it."

I think Kasparov just looked at the field and decided that Carlsen was the best. Why should he waste his time on the others when Carlsen is the best?

"that it something that is not really honest"

Then it is also dishonest if Muhammad Ali would train a boxer and be paid for his work just because he doesn't train everyone or does it for free.

Kasparov can train whoever he wants as far as I am concerned, there will always be someone calling him dishonest or worse regardless what he does :)

Yeah maybe for Botvinnik it didn't really matter who his privileged successor was, provided he's Russian - oops, Soviet at that time. Similarly, Dokhoian (paid by the Russian federation) is only allowed to train Russian players, hence Karjakin had to switch federations.

At the very least, Kasparov DOES also train other young talents. I referred to his "master classes" with young American talents before, here's the link (again): http://main.uschess.org/content/view/9152/365/
Of course that's a different type of training: also group training, and he's unlikely to give away some of his secret opening novelties.

You may still be right that Kasparov working face to face with Carlsen "is never seen before in chess history". But, at the very least, Carlsen already came a long way "on his own". In the very beginning he was coached by Simen Agdestein (the previous great in line on a Norwegian scale?), but - unless I am wrong - they stopped working regularly together soon after he became a GM.

Talking of World Champions turning to coaching... Gelfand was apparently Tigran Petrosian's favourite pupil and after Jermuk he said:

"I was lucky and in early childhood I received priceless lessons from Tigran. He taught you to think not in terms of "moves", and not in the manner the young think today. Petrosian would say: "You need to bring the knight there and exchange the rooks and the position's won". He taught you to grasp the essence of the position..."


That page on the Sport Express website is also "endowed" with a remarkably unsubtle Flash ad for Sony Ericsson / FIFA 2010.

Who needs Viagra, your mobile phone will get you "rock hard in a flash" :D :D :D

Actually if you look OUTSIDE of Moscow and St. Petersburg, the quality of life in Russia under Putin didn't improve much if at all. The most notable improvement is the decrease in street violence, still currently the level of violence is certainly no better than in Ukraine.

What has changed is that people in Russia like to feel a part of big and scary empire and Putin gave them that feeling back. That is the basis of his popularity, not the improvements in quality of life across the country.

Funny thing is that the level of life in democratic Kiev also climbs relatively steadily (especially compared with 90's) without any "stabilizing" figure such as Putin and, notably, without influx of gas&petrol money. I'd also challenge you to show that AVERAGE people in Ukraine are poorer than in Russia, my feeling is to the contrary. The question here, of course, is how to define "average".

That being said, Ukrainians are dissatisfied with their government and the way the country is developing and rightfully so. The thing is that both countries are run by crooks, whose primary concern is personal enrichment. The difference is that Ukrainians in general see their government for what it is, while perceptions of many Russians is clouded by the reemergence of Russia as a political power.

While becoming again a political power is certainly to the benefit of Russia as a country and definitely a plus to Putin's regime, that's where his achievements end. The gross national income surged (largely due to the explosion on the energy market), but 99% of this extra money ended in the hands of 1% of population. If this seems like a blessing to many, that just shows that many are easily fooled.

"Funny thing is that the level of life in democratic Kiev also climbs relatively steadily (especially compared with 90's) without any "stabilizing" figure such as Putin and, notably, without influx of gas&petrol money. I'd also challenge you to show that AVERAGE people in Ukraine are poorer than in Russia, my feeling is to the contrary. The question here, of course, is how to define "average"."

Well, FWIW, Russian GDP per capita is around 16,000 while that of Ukraine is around 7,000. That, of course, tells us nothing about the relative situation of an average citizen, but then again, it is not clear why the wealth distribution should be less equitable in Russia than in Ukraine - at least I cannot think of any reasons of the top of my haed. I don't disagree about both ruling elites being crooks, though.

"99% of this extra money ended in the hands of 1% of population".

Just like the US, eh?

Some time before, I really needed to buy a building for my organization but I did not earn enough cash and could not order anything. Thank goodness my dude proposed to get the loan from reliable bank. So, I did so and used to be satisfied with my credit loan.

I visited this page first time to get info on people search and found it Very Good Job of acknowledgment and a marvelous source of info.........Thanks Admin! http://www.bestphonelookup.com

Twitter Updates

    Follow me on Twitter



    About this Entry

    This page contains a single entry by Mig published on September 11, 2009 12:34 PM.

    Theoretically Speaking in Bilbao was the previous entry in this blog.

    Aronian Runs Away in Bilbao is the next entry in this blog.

    Find recent content on the main index or look in the archives to find all content.