Mig 
Greengard's ChessNinja.com

Boris Gelfand, Older and Wiser

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With all the kerfuffle over 19-year-old Magnus Carlsen winning in London and becoming the youngest-ever world #1 it was easy to forget about Boris Gelfand, all 41 years of him, winning the FIDE World Cup in Khanty-Mansiysk, Russia, in the same week. The top-seeded Israeli outlasted Ponomariov to take the title in the second set of blitz tiebreak games. They drew the four classical games with little intrigue. After starting the rapids with a draw, Gelfand won the second game and got some luck to hold the third when Ponomariov missed several wins in the endgame. One of the (several) tragedies of the KO format is that even as the average rating of the players trends higher as the culling goes on, the players are so stressed and exhausted from the do-or-die tension and the varying controls that the chess quality inevitably suffers. In the fourth rapid Gelfand got a nice plus against Ponomariov's "QP Sicilian," aka the Benoni. (In case of emergency, like a must-win with black...) Pono kept finding sharp ideas and avoiding simplification and eventually his passed pawns were more than a match for White's extra exchange.

On to blitz, where Ponomariov, now a three-time KO finalist (an incredible stat that can't be a coincidence. His nervous system is amazing.), started off on the wrong foot by tripping over his move order in a Kan Sicilian and getting blown out of the Siberian snow in around 15 moves. His king under fire, Black instead found a way of losing his queen. Ponomariov came back yet again to stay alive in game two, Gelfand missing a draw by a single square at the end, putting his knight on c4 instead of the strong 33..Nd5! Gelfand won the third blitz when Ponomariov went for some unsound tactics instead of the solid 44..b5. Pono tossed his last chance away in the fourth game with the prosaic blunder 23.b6, turning a solid advantage into a lost position instantly. A sad way to go out, but the better man won in the end. A nice trophy to bring home for Hanukkah. Mazeltov!

The Israeli played 36 games during his Cup run. 16 classical (well, fast classical), 14 rapid, and 6 blitz. He knocked out Obodchuk, Amonatov, Polgar (tb), Vachier-Lagrave (tb), Jakovenko (tb), Karjakin, and Ponomariov (tb). Stunningly, considering all the tiebreak games he played, Gelfand lost only a single game at any control, the second classical game against Polgar, during his trek to the final. Now that's some serious concentration. In a hat-tip to Elo, he scored exactly his rating expectation in the 16 classical games.

Gelfand thus adds his name to the list of players in the next stage of the candidates cycle, the matches that are planned to take place in Baku, at least in part. (So much for Abu Dhabi as the alternative venue!) He'll join the loser of Anand-Topalov (WCh loser), Kamsky (previous candidates loser), Aronian (Grand Prix winner), Carlsen and Kramnik (rating) and two others: the Grand Prix runner up (almost certainly Wang Yue, Gashimov, or Radjabov, and assuming the final GP event actually happens) and the organizer wildcard, aka the PTBNL, or in this case, the ATBNL, or Azerbaijani To Be Named Later.

The principal translator must have left Khanty-Mansiysk with Ponomariov, but the official site has a bland post-event interview up with Gelfand. He won the event on his mother's birthday, btw, not her "anniversary." And Gelfand wasn't really the oldest player in the event. He eliminated the oldest player, Obodchuk, in the first round. But point taken; he was definitely the oldest contender. Three 40-somethings in the top 10 and we keep hearing about the youth movement. Stay strong, my fellow paunchy, balding children of the 60s!

42 Comments

Abu Dhabi as alternative venue for the candidates tournament!? First time I read this ... well, they probably have to select a place that cannot or wouldn't claim a(nother) wildcard for lack of local 2700+ players!?

"Andy Ram [Israeli tennis player], playing last month in Dubai, says his overall experience in the United Arab Emirates was positive, and he hopes to return next year. "They treated me great, and it was all very smooth," he says." http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2009-03-16-andyram-indianwells_N.htm

Its nice to see that, despite all efforts from FIDE, eventually the world's top 7 (or maybe even top 8) players will contend for the next Wch title, with only one outsider (Kamsky). I just hope that the Fide payday does not suffer too much from this alarming level of well-deserved participation, so they don't cancel the whole thing in disgust.

Well, at least they have one paying customer, an American tourist in Azerbaijan whose trip was funded by the state of Bulgaria - an amazing match of circumstances if you think about it...

It's a pity that the candidates tournament is not held in the Ukraine, Ivanchuk is the one and only player who will be truly missed. He should get the wildcard, but of course it's not gonna happen.

FIDE-bashing is popular and sometimes legitimate, but here I don't get it: Why would FIDE be interested in a weaker field for the candidates tournament? Why should they secretly have hoped that the #1 seed doesn't win the World Cup?

BTW, Ivanchuk has still reasonable (more than theoretical) chances to qualify via the Grand Prix, what he needs is
- winning the last event, and
- Radjabov finishing no better than shared 3rd.
The first "cannot be ruled out", the second actually appears rather likely - given Radjabov's shaky performances in recent top events.

Hehe, yes the translation was funny. It seems the writer kept forgetting the words ;-)

Not all the candidates matches will and can be played in Baku due to Aronian´s qualification. So there´ll be another venue for candidates matches and its organisor may well want to nominate a player, too. FIDE can grant the eighth spot if they leave the ill fated grandprix series unfinished - just speculating - as I have done before here: http://schach.twoday.net/stories/6054773

Sarcasm and trolling aside (seriously), I'm wondering exactly what FIDE bashing has not been legitimate? Exactly what virtue(s) would you extol?

I'm an ardent opponent of FIDE, so I'm curious to know what facts there are upon which one could possibly hang one's hat these days. About the only thing I can come up with is that the organization may have had some positive contributions back in the 40's-60's, but since then, bupkis.

"FIDE can grant the eighth spot if they leave the ill fated grandprix series unfinished"

It would be embarrassing for FIDE with another rule change with just one event to go, especially considering that several players have moved between events to make it all work. The final tournament has also been moved half a year from its original starting date and many players have had to change their plans accordingly.

May in Astrakhan is what it says on the FIDE site, and the 2011 date for the last half of the candidates (as they are scheduled at the moment) might even end up in 2012 if the usual postponements will occur (Elista candidates in 2007, the planned Kasparov matches 2003-05, Topalov-Kamsky 2009, etc). The usual difference between planned and actual date for FIDE's candidates matches has been big, if they have been played at all.

The Azeris would surely be unhappy if Gashimov and Radjabov wouldn't be allowed to play a sixth event, and their having two participants in the Candidates (the likely outcome otherwise) suddenly would be ruled out. Since they pay most of the costs for the Candidates they might also be less content if some new organiser suddenly is given the spot that probably would be their through #2 in the GP according to the rules when they won the bidding. And it's not totally certain that Aronian would have been clear #1 if Wang Yue, Radjabov and Gashimov hadn't moved to the last tournament (even if I think he would have won the series easily also if all players had participated according to FIDE's original schedule). In any case, with FIDE you can never be too sure what will happen.

"Not all the candidates matches will and can be played in Baku due to Aronian´s qualification. So there´ll be another venue for candidates matches and its organisor may well want to nominate a player, too."

Yes. Carlsen is great, but the older guys Anand, Kramnik, Topalov, Ivanchuk, and Gelfand are still very strong and more experienced in head to head matches. Has Carlsen ever won a 12+ game match at classical time controls against a top 5 player like Aronian? If so, please cite the match.

"Carlsen is great, but the older guys Anand, Kramnik, Topalov, Ivanchuk, and Gelfand are still very strong and more experienced in head to head matches. Has Carlsen ever won a 12+ game match at classical time controls against a top 5 player like Aronian?"

Few have played such matches these days, even guys like Ivanchuk and Gelfand have never participated in a 12+ match, and they were top players already in the 1980s.

"Yes. Carlsen is great, but the older guys Anand, Kramnik, Topalov, Ivanchuk, and Gelfand are still very strong and more experienced in head to head matches. Has Carlsen ever won a 12+ game match at classical time controls against a top 5 player like Aronian? If so, please cite the match."

You ask a lot! 12+ game matches are rarely played at all. Carlsen has been a pro for 6 months. Prior to that he played occational tournaments during his high school years...

To my knowledge among todays top 5, only Ananad, Kramnik and Topalov have done 12+ matches.

I don't know whether FIDE had anything to do with it, but the last few years have been amazing for chess. Chess fans have never had it so good - scarcely a month passes without a high-level event. Despite the financial downturn, there seems to be plenty of enthusiasm amongst sponsors.

"Has Carlsen ever won a 12+ game match at classical time controls against a top 5 player like Aronian?"

No, but he qualified as Candidate in 2005, and in 2007 he played his Candidate match against the top seed Aronian 6 classical and 4 rapids to a draw. Aronian needed 2 blitz games to win.

Mind you, that was before Carlsen was a 2700+ player... and had Kasparov as a trainer.

short and sweet. darn right noyb. i have a close friend, who's name is not mentioned, in world top 100--once super GM--who knows FIDE 'A to Z'. he told me, as recently as maybe four years ago, that when a friend tried to contact FIDE on an urgent matter, didnt have voicemail but you had to FAX. now, i dont know if its still the case, but this person never lies to me or exaggerates. its pathetic. now, i know all about capital markets. FIDE cum Kirsan DOES fulfill a function, even if it is to finance X or Y event, fair enough, even if filled with cronies from 3rd world militaristic or fascist countries. but i couldnt agree more with noyd. thank you. i dont have a solution. and PCA evidentially didnt solve it, but we can agree the problems are serious.

now, all in he same breath, the whole crux of it is aptly highlighted by jaideepblue. this is also true. well said. thank you. maybe its not perfectly true that 'we never had it so good' (cf. candidate process of 60/70's brutal but produced contenders in objectively resolved path, good or bad) but we have had it good. but who is we? fans or players? yes lots of events and money, but a bit like the good grandfather passing milk chocolate candies to the grandkids to his gluten/dairy free when mom and dad expressedly forbid it. how do you compete with that? 'we will f_ck you up the a_s but you can get money while we do it, changing rules as we go?'. that said, again, you are right, and i say this without hint of sarcasm, please. we have had a lot of great chess A. and a chaotic system B. from the point of view of whole systems. blessings, dk

Spot on David. I think professional players are coming around to the fact that FIDE just can't do for them what they could do for themselves (i.e., efforts over the last 35 years such as Fischer individually, Kasparov (GMA, PCA) and more recently the ACP). If I were them, I certainly wouldn't worry about the "legitimacy" of FIDE's title (FIDE's turned that into a joke in the past decade). Any serious fan or player understands the lineage of the WC.

I supppose that the ultimate obstacle is that there is no practical way to prepare professionally on the one hand, and organize business support on the other. But at some point someone is going to realize/appreciate the fact that third world tyrants/diplomats are only interested in the perks that they make available to themselves by raiding FIDE coffers. It will require careful planning, marketing and a "no-quit" determination, but if Poker can make it to ESPN, there is no reason why Chess can't enjoy at least some greater recognition. The advent of software evaluations that can be shown on-screen for novices, along with suggested improved lines adds the necessary ingredient to promote the game to a more general audience. And if we still had players emoting to Kasparov's level when they realize a mistake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZqcT66Fkzw&feature=related), the entertainment level would be there.

Putting it mildly, the Grand Prix system didn't quite work out as planned or promised/dreamed - still I think the original idea isn't all bad: a rather transparent qualifying scheme at the start, all players participate in four events, the best one(s) overall prevail.

Compare this was the Grand Slam which some (esp. Danailov fans) suggest as an alternative or better system: At the organizers' discretion, players participate in none, one or all of the events, for each event "winner takes it all" even if he is first on tiebreak only.

And if we acknowledge that chess consists not only of 2600+ or 2700+ players, just as an example:
- FIDE maintains the ELO rating system (frogbert's live list deals with a few dozen players and a few dozen events per year, the FIDE list comprises thousands of players and events). Who else would be interested in doing this?

Spot on David. I think professional players are coming around to the fact that FIDE just can't do for them what they could do for themselves (i.e., efforts over the last 35 years such as Fischer individually, Kasparov (GMA, PCA) and more recently the ACP). If I were them, I certainly wouldn't worry about the "legitimacy" of FIDE's title (FIDE's turned that into a joke in the past decade). Any serious fan or player understands the lineage of the WC.

***
FIDE *isn't supposed* to do these things for them.

FIDE is an organization of national federations NOT players. Players should go thru their national federations.

The national federations of the world join together in FIDE to do things that they cannot do individually (i.e. run a title cycle or a world rating system). These are federation issues, not player issues (directly).

I am not anti-player...but it is unfair to accuse FIDE of being non-responsive to elite player needs when it is expressly DESIGNED to address only federation needs.

I will ignore the trolling on the world title lineage issue except to note the following:

Steinitz
Lasker
Capablanca
Alekhine
Euwe
Alekhine
Botvinnik
Smyslov
Botvinnik
Tal
Botvinnik
Petrosian
Spassky
Fischer
Karpov
Kasparov
Karpov
Khalifman
Anand
Ponomariov
Khazhimzinov
Topalov
Kramnik
Anand

Yes, chess fan's know the lineage. Topalov will win the match...and then in the next cycle, Carlsen will become the 20th chess champion of the world.

Hopefully Abu Dhabi has the money after the payed Dubai off .

I agree that it is best to ignore the trolling on the world title lineage issue, except to note the following:

Steinitz
Lasker
Capablanca
Alekhine
Euwe
Botvinnik
Smyslov
Tal
Petrosian
Spassky
Fischer
Karpov
Kasparov
Kramnik
Anand

I hope Carlsen will become the 16th world champion!

FIDE is the legitimate holder of the world title whether we recognize it or not. One can even argue that Kramnik's title was not legitimate since Kasparov had no right to take the title with him after bolting FIDE. He forfeited just like Fischer did.

Kramnik and Kasparov played for the BrainGames world title, a separate title. The split created by Kasparov himself. Kramnik won and and he later became FIDE World Champion only when he beat Topalov. The history is a mess with a lot of footnotes.

My prediction is that Carlsen will not become the 16th or the 20th. Anand and Topalov have to play first. :-)

great post.

play chess
online at chess

thank you
adana çiçekçi

On the FIDE grand prix: I think that until recently, FIDE actually had the next GP cycle scheduled on their calendar. But now I can't find it there, so maybe they realized they won't be able to find six cities to sponsor it. Which means they will have to re-invent the whole World Championship qualification once again for the next cycle...

"maybe they realized they won't be able to find six cities to sponsor it. Which means they will have to re-invent the whole World Championship qualification once again for the next cycle..."

I think so too, this time they had six cities and two official reserve cities. Only two of the events were held according to plan. Elista (probably with FIDE as the main "sponsor") had to be moved, and the remaining five cities all pulled out, with last minute replacements having to be found, possibly with the help of financial support from FIDE.

Considering also the fiasco with rule changes halfway through the series it's hard to see how the sponsors could be more interested in a new edition of the series than they were this time. So FIDE will probably have to invent some new system, not exactly for the first time the last years...

"Why would FIDE be interested in a weaker field for the candidates tournament?"

The less guarantee for a stable, transparent and just system leading to worthy contenders, the
more countries/companies are willing to cough up $$ to FIDE to secure a place for their lieblings. That would normally result in a weaker field. But in our case, two paying customers (Topalov and an Azeri) happen to be worthy and would have qualified anyway, and even the third possible case (Kramnik) turned to chess rather than the backdoor way, and demonstrated his worthyness at the table.

There is a site with the "live rankings" of the Grad Prix, the points each player has, and the upcoming events, but I lost the link...

Anybody has it?

Thnx

This one?

http://grandprix.fide.com/

The last 'upcoming event' is not there, though.

That is nice, Acirce. Thank you.

Will Aronian participate in the last GP?

My prediction is that Carlsen will not become the 16th or the 20th. Anand and Topalov have to play first. :-)

***
??

Anand (former and present) and Topalov (former) are both counted in the list of 19.

Carlsen (or a new face) would become the 20th.

Of course, FIDE can keep the official "World Champion" title. The question is how much significance the chess community put on them.

If we recognize World Champions based on who has the official FIDE title, then all those 5 guys, from Steinitz to Euwe, are not "World Champions". And yet, they are recognized by everybody. So it's not simply an issue of having an official FIDE title.

Kasparov didn't just forfeit like Fischer did. He kept playing, and he did play the official FIDE challenger Short.

For Ivanchuk to have a realistic chance:
1. He should win the last Grand Prix, and
2. Radjabov, Wang Yue, Gashimov, and Leko should not finish better than shared 3rd.

Taking 1 for granted, your point 2 is not true - have a look at acirce's link to the spreadsheet.
The last column "max." shows how many points players can reach by winning the last event:
current score + 180 (for clear first) - current worst result [Ivanchuk's max is 425 points]

Clear second gets you 150 points, for a total of "max."-30 [putting everyone but Radjabov behind Chucky if he wins the event]

Radjabov would still be ahead of Chucky if he finishes clear third (130 points), but shared 3rd to 4th (120 points) puts him behind (423.33 vs. 425).

Ivanchuk can still make it because his score is "most improvable" due to his very bad result in Nalchik - which will be deleted if he does better in the last event (it's hard to do worse ...). BTW, only Radjabov and Wang Yue do not depend on any other results. If Wang Yue is first and Radjabov second, they both get 453.33 points, but Wang Yue has the better 4th result used as tiebreaker.

I forgot the best 3 rule.
BTW, Aronian is also playing in the last GP. Although he cannot, and doesn't need to, improve his score, he has a big potential in determining other players' fate.

"he has a big potential in determining other players' fate"

Yep, and the three Azeri players may also determine the fate of each other a bit, since they get two spots in the Candidates if one of them finish second in the series, and all of them play the last event. But my guess is that Radjabov will end up second in the Grand Prix with a clear margin, and that Gashimov will get the organiser's spot.

I mean, Aronian cannot improve his _standing_.

I agree with your list of world champions TM. The FIDE format which produced Khalifman, Ponomariov, and Khazhimzinov as "world champions" in no way compares to the real match format that produced such greats as Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, etc. White Khalifman, Ponomariov, and Khazhimzinov are outstanding GMs, their so-called world championship titles were gained in a system where luck played a very big part in determining who won.

Generally agreed, but - while I am not a fan of Topalov - I would leave him on the list: A tournament as San Luis and subsequently Mexico also provides a deserved champion, at least if he wins it convincingly. And he satisfies other champion criteria: very high on the rating list, successes in other strong events after obtaining the title.
[Strictly spoken, Fischer didn't pass the second test because - by his own choice - there was no such test for him. But I may still be too harsh to delete his name from the list.]

Regarding Ponomariov (and arguably unlike Khalifman and Kasimdzhanov) I wouldn't say "luck played a very big part" in his victory. Given his results in subsequent KO events (finalist in 2005 and 2009, quarter finals in 2007 - each time eliminated by the overall winner) he rather seems to have a special talent and/or special qualities for that type of events. But he doesn't quite match the other criteria defined above.

With regard to WC formats, FIDE has shot itself in the foot so many times that now it seems, IMHO, historically evident that the old candidates' match system (that Fischer and some before him went through) is better than anything FIDE invented after that.

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    This page contains a single entry by Mig published on December 16, 2009 11:10 PM.

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