Azerbaijan's young star Teimour Radjabov has made the occasional hysterical comment in the past, but this latest requires some verification. The message boards at my old pal Sergey Shipov's "Crestbook" site are abuzz over Radjabov's interview about the Azerbaijani team's bronze-medal result at the Euro Team Championship that just finished in Greece. [ht dz] In particular, when asked about the key matchup against Armenia, Radjabov is quoted as responding, "One must admit to being worried. No matter where you meet, the enemy remains the enemy. We all hated them. But at such times you try to suppress these feelings so they don't interfere. In chess it is necessary to play with a clear head, otherwise you won't achieve your results."
A little cross-Caucasus jingoism to play to the local press or an exaggeration by a reporter eager to please his state news service bosses? This might not sound like much unless you are aware of the bitter history between the two communities. Of recent vintage were the "Black January" pogroms against Armenians in Baku, Azerbaijan as the USSR broke up. (Best known to the chess community from Garry Kasparov's dramatic escape from Baku with friends and family in a chartered plane.) And then open warfare between the two countries in 1992 over the (still) disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region, including the massacre of hundreds of Azerbaijani civilians.
Of course there is going to be special motivation when opponents represent nations in conflict. You are playing for your country, after all. But background or no, it's disturbing to have this sort of "enemy" and "hate" talk from a leading sportsman. Not exactly gens una sumus material. These two teams are going to be leaders in chess for at least a generation and a public element of racist/nationalist hatred is something nobody needs.
The best answer to Radjabov is these photo's :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/karpidis/1937784414/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/karpidis/1937934326/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/karpidis/1937805768/
Mamedyarov dancing with Aronian. I will cheer for those guys. This is what chess does :-) And let Radjabov hating Armenians...
By the way, I also found extremely bad journalism from chessbase having the article of Radjabov's interview with title "We all hate Armenians". If one persons goes down to nationalism, a website should try not to raise this as major issue.
Interesting idea, that it's for the media to ignore anything distasteful. I'm not in favor of sensationalism, but ignoring such things isn't helpful either.
Well, then they could post it but with some critical comment. Just publishing it with no comment can (and does) give negative impression.
The post you had, was perfectly ok. You were CRITICAL to this behaviour and this is fine (to me at least :)).
Radjabov might be a great chess player but as a person he is still a little boy. If he would have had a proper education then he would know what nationalism led to 70 years ago.
It would be nice if Mamedyarov would make a statement against Radjabov's comments. He seems to be a more reasonable guy.
Calling it "startling" and running with it at all surely makes it obvious that the editorial view is critical of Radjabov. The only real criticism I'd make of Chessbase is that they call APA a "Russian sports news agency". As far as I can tell it's very much an Azerbaijani (spelling!?) agency, which makes it more understandable (if not exactly what you'd like to see).
Here's the original (I think):) http://sport.apa.az/news.php?id=8903
Mefisto, this appears to be a problem. If he makes such a comment, this might be viewed as a treachery in Azerbaijan, such is the attitude in this country against Armenians. This makes what Rajabov did even worse-he made a ill-tempered comment from the name of the team, knowing they would not refute it.
Well, it is sad to see that there still exists such old fashioned nationalism in the world.
This incident will harm Radjabov's career.
I can imagine that the Corus' organizers are considering replacing Radjabov if that is legally possible.
Radjabov's comments are totally unacceptable in Holland, like in most western european countries.
Yeah, it's such a shame for a top chess player to actually say something that is interesting for a change! Ban him for life! We don't want people that stir "trouble" that might actually become MAJOR NEWS Headlines.. We want the guys like Kramnik and Leko who don't say anything that is interesting and put everyone to sleep! Kick that Radjabov character out of Corus, he is a BAD BAD Person.
I agree with derida. Chessbase should choose another headline if it wants to promote chess.
Also one has to respect Radjabov's intelligence. If his IQ is so low, then it's unwise to quote him.
On the other hand, if Radjabov's family went through hell and suffered due to the conflict, then I suppose we ought to put a bit of perspective in this comment and move on with his fantastic game playing.
Duncan
He is indeed bad for the image of chess.
Sponsors don't want to be associated to that kind of people
There were anti-Armenian pogroms in Sumgait, in Baku, in Maragha and elsewhere. Contrary to mig's assertion hundreds of Armenians were massacred in Azerbaijan as well as in Karabakh. But why is everyone surprised? Please, read Azeri newspapers at least weekly and you'll see what the Azeris breathe against Armenians, Jews and Russians albeit they try hard to cover it well. Last year Azeris destroyed thousands of Armenian medieval artefacts in order to propagate the idea that here were never any Armenians living in Azerbaijan. Well that is the logic that has infested the logic of the likes of Radjabov who suffers from a small-dick-syndrome apparently. See hxxp://www.historytoday.com/MainArticle.aspx?m=32351&amid=30251142
Kudos to Chessbase for not letting us forget how similar the Azeri (turkic-muslim population) and the Armenians (aryan-christian pop.) are in their murderous and implacable hatred of eachother.
"gens una summus" !!
Are Armenians and Azeris particularly intelligent because the tiny fiefdoms seem to produce quite a few 2700s and high 2600s?
Just checked the population numbers. Armenia at 3m, Azerbajian 8m, produce two 2700s apiece. Amazing!!
At Armenia's rate New York City would have five 2700s!!! (We New Yorkers are plenty clever, but even that would be a reach...)
>Are Armenians and Azeris particularly intelligent because the tiny fiefdoms seem to produce quite a few 2700s and high 2600s? >
Not really, it is because of the cultural influence of the dominant regional power Russia.
Had it been China they would have produced very good table-tennis players.
What is interesting is the following. When the conflict was on-going between these two nations, Rad-zh-opov (hint hint), was still in his diapers. Thus his feelings of hatred are direct result of azeri education, he did not hate, he was thought to hate and be a nationalist. And here we are thinking the guy is actually capable of independent thought.
-LAT
The whole Armenia/Azerbaijan situation is a tragedy. The intensity of the rhetoric reminds me of the whole Israeli/Palestinian situation. One has to wonder what would happen if an Armenian and an Azeri were to face one another in the world championship match - and given the strength of top players of both countries it is a real possibility. Even if the players are moderate in their views, all kind of chess/government officials will likely use for nationalistic propaganda in a way that will make Danailov look like Mother Teresa and that will make Fisher/Spassky and Karpov-Korchnoi matches stand out as examples of good sportsmanship.
I would caution against accepting the supposed Radjabov interview as faithful to whatever he has actually said. Like one of the previous posters said, the source seems to be Azerbaijani, and perhaps it is a case of journalist using Radjabov as an excuse to spread some hatred. Until there is a confirmation or another interview by Radjabov, I am not going to consider quotes from this interview an accurate representation of his views. There is a chance he may have been badly misquoted.
Ovidiu, an Azeri sportsman gives an ill-tempered, nationalistic interview. Chessbase publishes this, probably to make as much noise as possible and to teach the kid a lesson.
Now let me understand where did you derive this from?
QUOTE:
"Kudos to Chessbase for not letting us forget how similar the Azeri (turkic-muslim population) and the Armenians (aryan-christian pop.) are in their murderous and implacable hatred of eachother.
"
END QUOTE.
I'm really curious.
"Rad-zh-opov (hint hint)"
You're too cryptic for us non-Soviets. What does that mean, he's really a Russian/Armenian/Jew?
Everybody is OK with interesting, Braden, but racist is a whole different category. Other players manage to make interesting remarks without running the risk of enraging several million people.
"Interesting idea, that it's for the media to ignore anything distasteful. I'm not in favor of sensationalism, but ignoring such things isn't helpful either."
What do you think the New York Times RAG has been doing to propagate their liberal agenda since Raines took over the executive editorship in 2001 for his short reign--and its only become worse? The "gray lady" has become a cynical and misleading old spinster. If it can happen to her, who knows what the real story regarding Radjabov is. I'll wait for more insight in this matter before I make a conclusion.
too lazy to go check and find the right blog/post,
but wasn’t there someone who was bitching how Nakamura wasn’t invited to the Tal memorial and how we were going to be forced to watch a 15 move Kramnik - Leko draw?
derida's post made me feel better.
May Mamedyarov get lots of invitations in 2008....
And may Radjabov (who is only 20 years old) reflect upon his words.
I think Anand has some serious opening problems to solve....
Yes! Shame on ChessBase.com! "We all hate the armenians!" NO, Radjabov does not say that in the interview in question. He was expressing some feelings against THE OTHER like we all have and have had, especially when we were young, thats life. Wee the danes, have always liked to beat the swedes in what ever sport, including chess, but they are still our best friends among nations.
Gens uma sumus - and keep up the good work, Michael!
Anand seems to be happy as a clam in anti Moscow gambit. So it's up to others to find a cure against Catalon. Besides, Carlsen have already shown a rather clean equalizer.
Jens Kristiansen, unfortunately the original Rajabov's interview in Russian does literary say "An enemy is an enemy, we all hate them" and no it's not the kind of "hate" you have towards the swedes. Shocking interview if it's not some kind of misrepresentation of Rajabov's words.
It seems that Radjabov gave some explanation to Chessbase. But, it didn't really look like a detraction of what he said rather a formulatic explanation.
Interesting choice by Chessbase to leave out the Allah reference.
Their translation says: "I did not accept, because by then Vugar [Gashimov] had a bad position. He lost, so I had to defeat Akopian to draw the match, and I managed to do it."
While the Russian version goes: "В результате Вугар проиграл, и поэтому, чтобы сравнять счет, мне нужно было победить Акопяна. Слава Аллаху, я смог сделать это."
The last sentence praises Allah for the victory.
This is notorious Chessbase reporting, trying to create scandals when there are not. Simply, they should have contacted Radjabov before publishing this garbage.
rasi,
I'm not sure if Chessbase should have published this myself, but it's hardly "garbage" or creating a scandal out of nothing. As with Topalov's infamous recent Spanish interview Radjabov's not disputing anything he's quoted as saying, just stating that if he'd seen the text of the interview prior to publication he'd have tried to stop it.
Radjabov's retraction:
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4245
That's much better. Let's now see if the journalist taped the interview...
While the Russian version goes: "В результате Вугар проиграл, и поэтому, чтобы сравнять счет, мне нужно было победить Акопяна. Слава Аллаху, я смог сделать это."
The last sentence praises Allah for the victory
yes, "Slava Allahu, ..," Allah'u Akhbar.
Well, then it is even worse. This already damaging interview ends with a touch of typical islamic fanaticism (praising Allah for victory over the kaffir).
Radjabov&Co. may be nuts indeed.
I know nothing of Azeri Turkish, but would guess by analogy that "Allah" simply = "God" devoid of any denominational connotations.
Point *might* still hold if Radjabov was giving the interview in Russian or English, and even if it doesn't hold, it's probably unfair to overread.
Anyway, Radjabov has either retracted OR clarified a misquotation: given that U.S. and Soviet players probably said one or two stupid things between 1945 and 1989, might be best to give him a one-time pass.
The sad part of this is that it receives all the press while round 3 of the Tal Memorial still remains unreported on ChessBase and D.D. Kramnik, Carlsen and Shirov all won. For all the technical players, check out Kramnik's win over Leko. Good stuff.
Addendum: Mamedyarov also won, and the saga continues regarding my overlooking him. Geez!
I don't see why anything should be made of the Allah reference. It's no different from someone saying - "It was a really difficult game, but I won in the end, thank God".
20 years old, and yet Radjabov does the right thing far more quickly than some vastly more experienced politicians and celebrities twice his age.
(In the past, there were some horrendous flame wars on chessgames.com between Armenians and Azeris; they make Israelis and Palestinians look like Sunday school... ;-)
I think you guys are all getting worked up. Ritual thanks to "Allah" is common enough, without any "loony" religious overtones (and when was the last time you DIDN'T hear an American sports star make sure to thank God first of all for helping his team win?...)
As for Radjabov's nationalist fervour: frankly, I don't see the problem. Shouldn't we actually welcome some grain to the chess world? Some actual opinions, a semblance of a real life? The bland insularity of the typical chess pro is as stultifying as it is hypocritical. Plenty of Azeris do ineed view Armenia as "the enemy"; Radjabov is reflecting their views. While we might wish he could act as a shaping influence rather than a mere mirror, the impulse to seek comfort in a little motto ("gens una summa!" Hooray!), practically stabbing our eyes out in the rush to put our happy rose-tinted glasses back on, is precisely the sort of head-in-the-sand, naive thinking that actually serves to excuse a lot of ills in this world; it does more harm than good.
(If anyone's interested, there's a timely column today in the Guardian about politically spineless American -- and British -- sports reporting: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/11/12/its_time_the_dancing_monkeys_o.html)
We encourage the notion of chess as "war", safe in the knowledge that the little nerds who play it couldn't possibly have feelings beyond the 64 squares. Well, welcome to the real world. Don't shoot the messenger.
"20 years old, and yet Radjabov does the right thing far more quickly..."
Radjabov, young as he is, does demonstrate considerable political skills. His "retraction" is indeed quick and, curiously, does not retract very much. He does not deny any specific statements ascribed to him by the journalist, does he? His only complaint seems to be that he was not given a chance to read the text before publication (and thus edit out the offensive parts?)
And of course the original interview remains on the same site exactly as it was, in all 3 languages.
osbender wrote:
"Anand seems to be happy as a clam in anti Moscow gambit. So it's up to others to find a cure against Catalon. Besides, Carlsen have already shown a rather clean equalizer."
You may have a point, Ostap, but can Anand make progress against Kramnik with his normal 1.e4 (!-Bender) ?
I do think Anand has more opening problems to solve than Kramnik.
Ah, politics, always a great topic to start a flame war.
So if an Iraqi would say: "we hate Americans" he's a jingoist?
At least _try_ to see these things in context.
I like to think of myself as a pacificst, but if two countries are at war with many dying because of it... it changes things. I think I would also have a hard time "loving" another country who's killing fellow countrymen.
Anyway, Radjabov has already responded to Chessbase indicating he's not as warhungry as Chessbase apparently would like him to be.
Well, Radjabov's response to Chessbase did not exactly improve his position. The only thing it did was to turn a clear-cut statement
"we hate Armenians"
into something like
"the Azerbaijani people, including me as its representative, are tolerant and will never stoop to pathological nationalism" - we just hate the Armenians.
So what if he hates Areminians? Lots of people hate lots of other people. Deal with it. The thing is what do you do about the hate. In Radjabov's case it motivated him to play extra hard against Akopian. Which I think is perfectly ok. If he had said "I hate Armenians and go around desecrating their graves" or something, then you have a problem.
Radjabov's honesty (you have to admire his frankness, his lack of hypocrisy) opens a new era for the chess matches. No more dull and easy draws indeed.
I modestly propose to begin with the next team matches :
Armenia-Turkey (Aronian, Atalik etc)
(to be held in the building of the Armenian Holocaust memorial in Yerevan)
Germany-Israel (there is still, albeit a museum, an appropiate venue and accomodation for the match in estern Poland, 5 km from the German border)
Israel-Iran ( doesn't matter if it is held at
Daimona in Israel or Basheer in Iran, as both sites are suffused with the nuclear energy the players need for fighting)
Serbia-Croatia ( no knives and AK-47 allowed, and to be held in anywhere Yugoslavia)
Wow, a hot blooded teenager said something probably not completely thought through and not politically correct. I'm sure no one else in the world is guilty of such thoughtlessness (end sarcasm). Give the kid a break, We learn social graces and appropriate behavior over time!
Well, I agree with Andrew. BUT, the chessbase people (not teenagers) should have understood that Radjabov was being silly and try to focus somewhere else.
Also Radjabov is 20 (not exactly a small kid). When you have publicity you have more responsibility. Finally, I can imagine if that kid (Radjabov) happened to be Palestinian say, and he said that "we all hate Jews", then people (in chessbase including) would have gone completly crazy...
I think that his reaction is understandable, but unacceptable. And we should react to this, both for what message is given to other people, but also to make him realise that nationalistic positions are not ok. Of course, I didn't say that we should punish him or never invite him in tournaments etc. These are over-reactions.
"Radjabov's honesty (you have to admire his frankness, his lack of hypocrisy) opens a new era for the chess matches. No more dull and easy draws indeed.
I modestly propose to begin with the next team matches :
Armenia-Turkey (Aronian, Atalik etc)
(to be held in the building of the Armenian Holocaust memorial in Yerevan)
Germany-Israel (there is still, albeit a museum, an appropiate venue and accomodation for the match in estern Poland, 5 km from the German border)
Israel-Iran ( doesn't matter if it is held at
Daimona in Israel or Basheer in Iran, as both sites are suffused with the nuclear energy the players need for fighting)
Serbia-Croatia ( no knives and AK-47 allowed, and to be held in anywhere Yugoslavia)"
======================
Most of the these match-ups might plausibly take place in the Chess Olympiad. Some of them have already occurred.
I believe that only Israel--Iran is an automatic "Do Not Pair", since the Iranians have a well known policy of refusing to allow their teams, or indivudual competitors, play against Israelis in sporting events. In fact, I can't recall seeing Israel paired against ANY Arab team in the Chess Olympiad.
(Recall the Iranian Judo competitor,
Arash Miresmaeili, who forfited a match at the 2004 Olympics, rather than face an Israeli. Could he have been surprised at this? I mean, the name of the sport IS Judo.... ;-)
Of course, it would be quite interesting to see what Iran would do, if faced with the prospect of facing the Israeli National Football team in one of the elimination rounds of the 2010 World Cup.
That would be an amusing dilemma (one that the Saudis, or other Arab teams would also face).
Aside from Iran, few other countries are willing to cut off their noses to spite their faces. You can't beat your hated rival if you cop out with a forfeit loss.
Also, I hate to break it to you, but despite the Holocaust, Israel and Germany are not bitter enemies, even in the sporting world. Note that Germany took full responsibility for its policies of Genocide, and the healing could begin.
"I know nothing of Azeri Turkish, but would guess by analogy that "Allah" simply = "God" devoid of any denominational connotations."
That's plausible, Bill. But your interpretation hinges on whether or not the Azeri word for "God" is in fact Allah. If the Azeris use a different word to denote (a nondenominational) God, then we would have to draw other conclusions. Likewise, if it were the case that Radjabov were a practicing Muslim. Without more information, it doesn't make sense to draw conclusions at this juncture.
DOug, this is preposterous. What exactly hinges on whether "Allah" is a "marked" term for Radjabov? What "conclusions" are you trying to draw?
>Also, I hate to break it to you, but despite the Holocaust, Israel and Germany are not bitter enemies, even in the sporting world. >
I know, the Germans are supporters of Israel.
In general they are more afraid of themselves than anyone else and try hard to show how inoffensive they are (since any sign of strength and national pride would be quickly misinterpreted).
Someone needs to remind the chess journalist of the year that 4 rounds have concluded at Corus without comment on this blog.
DOug wrote:
"In fact, I can't recall seeing Israel paired against ANY Arab team in the Chess Olympiad."
Not recently.
Varna 1962 Israel - Tunisia 3:1
Nice 1974 Israel - Tunisia +:- (Tunisia refused to play)
Also note
Munich 1958 Israel - Iran 3:1
And then of course Iran played in Tel Aviv 1964 and Haifa 1976. No Arab countries participated though.
From http://www.olimpbase.org/
Radjabov reminds us that a lot of superior Chess prodigies remain
children forever. Stupid comments. The apology is even stupider.
And this in the XXI-st Century when our children play online. There
are no foreigners online (™). Who cares about little conflicts like
that Aze-Arm -- these guys pull us back to a primitive time of
darkness and sharp knives -- the irony of history is that those who
indulge in nationalism and revanchism suffer the worst national
catastrophes and humiliations.
Chessbase loves to spread dirt, but that's why everybody reads them, I
guess... Anyway, there's a lot of good Chess going on at the moment
that we're missing.
D.
I don't think that Radjabov is simply a stupid child. An amusing article (dated February 2007) referenced below informs us that President Aliev has directed the state oil monopoly to keep supporting the chess genius. Radjabov is therefore a faithful employee of the state of Azerbaijan, so of course nobody should claim surprise when he acts as its mouthpiece.
And many people do indeed care about "little conflicts like that Aze-Arm".
http://news.bakililar.az/news_ilxam_aliev_poruchil_5516.html
Someone needs to remind chesstraveler that Corus isn't until January. Could he possibly mean the Tal Memorial?
"DOug, this is preposterous. What exactly hinges on whether "Allah" is a "marked" term for Radjabov? What "conclusions" are you trying to draw?"
"Theorist":
1) What hinges is whether Bill Brock's (BB) guessed at assumption is correct: That Radjabov's reference to "Allah" was made without denominational [parochial to Islam] connotations, and therefore, by implication, that the Islamic religion did not serve as an acculturating influence which informed the possibly bigoted attitudes towards [predominantly Christian] Armenians which are reflected in Radjabov's remarks, as given in the interview.
2) The only "conclusion" that I've drawn is that there is no real evidence for the conclusion that BB has drawn. He admittedly made a "guess" about the meaning of the word "Allah" in Azeri--specifically, whether the "analogy that "Allah" simply = "God" devoid of any denominational connotations" is correct. I believe that BB, earnestly enough, succumbed to the temptation of constructing a contextual narrative which serves to dismiss Radjabov's reference to Allah, and his comments in general, as being innocuous.
So, Radjabov's praising of Allah for his victory over his Armenian opponent (Akopian) may or may not have "denominational connotations". The denominational connotation would be rendered probable if it transpires that Radjabov is a practicing Muslim.
3) What is so preposterous about my comments?
The fact is that Radjabov willingly expressed his hatred of Armenians. Some people are ready to conclude from his comments that he harbors a bigoted attitude towards Armenians.
*IF* it is true that Radjabov is indeed a Bigot, then the further question is:
What motivates those sentiments?
There has been speculation that it stems from Nationalistic Jingoism. Based on Radjabov's own statements, as given in his clarification (if we are to take what he wrote at face value), it is clearly implied that Radjabov's political passions are stoked by his identification with the Azerbaijani national agenda, particularly with regard to territorial disputes with Armenia.
Others (posting in this thread on the DD) infer that Radjabov is a Racist (although the differences between Azeris and Armenians, such as they are, are obviously not racial in nature, but rather Ethnic). Finally, because of Radjabov's praise of Allah, it is possible that any Bigotry which Radjabov may harbor (towards the Armenians) might actually be motivated by religion--specifically by an identification with Islam. Obviously, these explanations are not mutually exclusive; indeed, Nationalistic, Religious, and Racial/Ethnic prejudices usually all serve to reinforce bigoted attitudes.
kdg
I reminded him, and he said yes, he meant the Tal Memorial. He suffers more of these lapses lately, says it's the aging process, but I think it's all the drugs, sex and classical music.
DOug, if I may question one of the basic theses in your impressive flow of logic:
You say: "[BB] admittedly made a "guess" about the meaning of the word "Allah" in Azeri..."
Chessbase gives a link to the original interview, which is not in Azeri, but in Russian. In Russian, the word for God is "Bog". If Radjabov merely wanted to say "thank God I won", like an American sportsman would do, he'd use the word "Bog".
The fact that he did not, either implies that Radjabov is an ignorant kid who has no idea of the religious conflicts in the past with Armenia, he studies chess all day long and can't judge the impact of his words. This is possible.
There are other explanations, too.
All this Allah issue is quite funny really...
Let us not see enemies where they do not exist.
In English when someone says "thank God", he means the Christian God, and not Zeus (12 gods..), or Allah (Muslim God), etc. It is therefore reasonable for a Muslim to say Allah, instead of God, and he is equally provocative with the American athlete that would say "thank God". I honestly believe, that a lot American athletes when they say "thank God", do NOT mean "thank to the supreme creature that is generally by people referred to, as God" , but he actually mean "thanks to the Christian God".
Therefore, Radjabov reference to Allah, has nothing particularly fundamentalist. At most some religious element, similar with many Christians.
On the other hand his nationalistic remark about hating Armenians, is obviously much less innocent.
Linux fan, as I mentioned above Chessbase have it wrong that the interview was with a Russian sports agency. It's an Azeri agency, which has Azeri, Russian and English versions. The interview may well have been in Azeri where the text is: "Şükür Allaha, istəyimi gerçəkləşdirdim."
Anyway, I'd be suprised if it wasn't just a throwaway phrase, like "thank God" or "inshallah" (god-willing).
I hate to mention it, but, Jewish god Jehovah, Muslim god Allah and Christian god (simply) God is exactly the same being according to the Holy Books of the aforementioned religions.
Well... Mandarin, although I understand what you say, it is not entirely true.
The above religions have come in some chronological order, so it is obviously impossible for the Holy book of an earlier religion to make a comment (identification of God's) on a subsequent.
So, while Christians, may claim that they have the same God with Jews (since this is what is stated in the Bible) this does not mean that the Jews should accept that the Christians are referring to the same God.
On top of this, each religion (monotheist), obviously doesn't accept the existence of any other God. In this sense they may claim, that what the other religion is really speaking of, is about their own God.
Finally, unless someone believes that God, Allah, Jehovah (Zeus also?) exist, it is not quite meaningful speaking of whether they are the same being or not!
So if we do not speak about their ontology (same entity), we can only speak about what is atribute to these (god) creatures (actions according to the relevant Holy books). These actions, clearly differ (e.g. Jews believe that God hasn't sent the Mesia, while Christians believe that he has, and so on).
Since, this creatures (God, Allah,Jehovah) differ in their actions while no comment can be made about their ontology, we have to conclude that they are distinct beings! :-)
What a totally bizarre discussion. Radjabov has never said he hates Armenians. One would think people should know better than to mindlessly trust a Chessbase headline by now. He was shocked to find out what the article quoted him as having said.
But the idea that there is somehow anything wrong about having strong feelings about the enemy country that is occupying a big chunk of your homeland is absurd as well. There will inevitably be a lot of tension when these countries meet in a contest. Anyone who finds this even slightly remarkable needs a dose of reality. I would say that, even IF Radjabov had said "we hate Armenians", it would be at least understandable. But as he didn't, that's not even relevant.
I stand behind Radjabov 100% in this.
The Azeri news (dis)service a disgrace for publishing this garbage.
Radjabov's "retraction" or "clarification" or whatever you wish to call it was a double disgrace, as he did not disagree with any of the invective racist hate spewed by the new agency.
Interesting that this young man is Azerbaijan's National Goodwill ambassador to UNICEF!!! Nice role model for the youth of Azerbaijan and the world.
Rajabov never said anything about hatred.. he was misquoted by the reporter. Chessbase made it worse with a totally incorrect headline.
You should be wondering why Chessbase need to create such controversy... do they think that it would sell Fritz better???
Acirce, old friend, I was somewhat worried that you have not yet shared with us your usual supreme wisdom. Are you perhaps in hiding from the brutal Swedish police?
I don't think anyone stands a chance in a debate against this mighty force (Radjabov plus standing behind him 100% acirce). I won't even try.
What a totally bizarre discussion. Radjabov has never said he hates Armenians.
Posted by: acirce at November 14, 2007 06:53
What a totally bizarre comment. Radjabov said (of Armenia): "The enemy is the enemy. We all have feelings of hate" (or in the Russian version simply: "Мы все ненавидели их" - "we all hated them").
Are you disputing what he's quoted as saying, despite Radjabov himself not disputing it?
mishanp, What a totally bizarre response. You are making it sound as if you have a video of Radjabov saying that.
And if Radjabov's latest statements is not disputing what the Azeri web site claimed he had said, I don't know what would be.
Why not give Radjabov a break and actually presume he is innocent instead of presuming he is guilty? Is that because he is a Muslim?
I've always liked Radjabov as a player, and even if he said what he probably did say, that doesn't change anything. When you've recently been in a war situation you can't expect everything to be sweetness and light between two countries.
But if Radjabov wanted to dispute what the website quotes him as saying why didn't he simply state that he didn't say it!? To say you didn't check over the text (as Topalov said about his Kramnik KGB interview) stops short of denying it. I hope it's true that Radjabov doesn't feel "pathological nationalism", but that doesn't mean he might not have said what he's quoted as saying. It'd be an odd thing for a journalist to make up otherwise.
re: the Muslim comment - note I've disagreed with anyone claiming the Allah comment had any importance in this thread.
My problem is what exactly we think Radjabov ought to be "innocent" of. Some seem to claim that he's "innocent" of being a dyed-in-the-wool Muslim -- as if this were something one "reserves judgement on" until evidence proves you guilty. And this, by the way, is what I think is "preposterous", DOug. Not the desire to understand properly what Radjabov said, but the subjectiong of his religious beliefs to some absurd quasi-forensic examination -- before, what? We find out he really is a Muslim? Is a bad Muslim? Invokes Allah occasionally?
The tut-tutting over his "religious" remark, and the rush to commend him on retracting his remarks about the Armenians so quickly -- and then the thread that praises him for taking it back, but not really: all this is hypocritical and cynical, and, if you ask me, makes the genuineness and authenticity of his remarks stand out all the more commendably.
It may have been an odd thing for a journalist to make up, but journalists have been known to make up stranger things. It seems like Radjabov's latest statement comes much closer to denying the notion that he made the claims the interview claims he did - than to confirming those claims. He may have stopped short of denying it, but he stopped even shorter of confirming it. When Radjabov says things along the lines of "journalists make things up" and "I don't happen to be into pathological nationalism" right after an interview like that, a case can be made that his denial (of the nationalist statements attributed to him) is implied.
It is not about religion, for God sake ;).
It is simply disgusting that a top GM, who happens to be Azerbaijan's Goodwill Ambassador to UNICEF would be so unabashedly full of hate. Given the genocidal past of Azerbaijan re: anti-Armenian pogroms, cultural destruction, etc maybe it should (sadly) come as no surprise. I find it strange that people feel the need to equivocate for Teimur when he himself doesn't come out against racist hate.
Maybe we should take up Mig on his reference to Kasparov and ask Garry himself. Anyone else wonder why Kasparov no longer lives in Baku? Or Akopian? Or WGM Danielian, or IM Nadanian? or...
Russianbear:
Implied denial might conceivably be an interpretation of Radjabov's letter - as far as benefits of the doubt go. However, different interpretations are also quite possible. For example, that he wanted to project that exact impression of implied denial all the while denying nothing and thus safeguarding his fat oil paycheck authorized by Aliev. And don't forget that the original interview is still in place, not a single letter changed.
Speaking of different interpretations, one is equally free to parse in different ways the phrase from an earlier interview (link below) where Radjabov explains his loss to Aronyan at Corus. He says "playing Aronyan, I always think of victory." On the surface, a laudable statement, you would expect no less from a true sportsman. However, why single out Aronyan? Beats me...
http://www.basabas.com/blog/item/4815
EeEk (posting here as 'Tarjei' I think) said this: "According to GM Mamedov, Radjabov was shocked to hear about the interview, and they are not at all hating Armenians. The reporter had made it up, and Radjabov did not say these words." Maybe Mamedov said this on ICC.
As far as I'm concerned the matter is pretty clear. Actually the clarification we've already seen from Radjabov is quite enough by itself and can only really be misunderstood if you want to.
now the nonsense people post about Radjabov's religion I don't understand at all... yes, he is a Muslim, and? Anyway, case closed until someone actually provides any real evidence that he said "we hate Armenians".
Now, as for hating Armenia, that's a different matter -- very obviously I'd do the same as an Azeri.
Oh my, acirce has closed the case. As soon as Armenians learn of this stunning new development, they will certainly start evacuating Karabakh.
Now, as for hating Armenia, that's a different matter -- very obviously I'd do the same as an Azeri.
Posted by: acirce at November 14, 2007 21:02
What does that mean?
By the way - is Radjabov Muslim? His Wikipedia entry at least mentions that like Kasparov he has a Jewish father (from Baku).
Come on, you can not take acirce and his so called "arguments" seriously. I hate to point that out, but his profound ignorance (extensively documented here and elsewhere) can only be counterbalanced by his utter stupidity. He is a Stalinist, which is kind of ironic in this context since it is Stalin himself who is largely responsible for the current conflict around Karabakh (look up the wikipedia article if interested.) [A classic example of Stalin's approach to the "national question" (as it is called in Russia). A lesson, one might add, well learned later by a faithful follower Tito.]
As for Radjabov's ethnicity/religion, he is indeed half-Jewish. I sort of hoped we would not go there... OTOH, maybe being half-Jewish, Radjabov feels vulnerable and therefore obliged to make up for that by being the regime's best lackey? That would not surprise me at all. And that might also explain the fact that, say, Mamedyarov behaves much more decently.
BTW, given Radjabov's ethnic/religious roots, would it not be wise for our esteemed friend acirce to qualify his "I stand behind Radjabov 100%" comment? Maybe only 50% now?
Regarding the different number of gods being mentioned, Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God, and all three religions believe that he spoke to Abraham. That said, they do not worship in the same manner, and do not agree on all matters of faith.
dz
- Radjabov, being half-Jewish half-Azeri Muslim can still be a full patriot of his country and doesn't have to compensate it by being the regime best lackey.
As a person who lived in Baku I can tell that the quality of journalistic is mostly very low over there. I have no doubts that Radjabov did not use exactly that language and that was all interpretation by an interviewer.
Both sides - Azeri and Armenians - often use such kind of inflammatory rhetorics in their media.
Another proof that an interview was butchered by a journalist is a reference by Radjabov "Thanks to Allah". Radjabov's first language is Russian and in Baku even muslims talking in Russin usually would say "Thanks God" (Slava Bodu) assuming it's Allah. I don't believe Radjabov is a deeply religious person (as most young people in Baku are not) and for him it was just a figure of speech.
h_gorski
"- Radjabov, being half-Jewish half-Azeri Muslim can still be a full patriot of his country and doesn't have to compensate it by being the regime best lackey."
You may well be right, that suggestion was pure speculation on my part. And he may or may not be Muslim, that is not the point here. I doubt that he frequents a mosque (or a synagogue, for that matter).
I think it is pretty obvious that the actual text under discussion was written by a journalist, not Radjabov himself. However, it is also clear that for whatever reason Radjabov is less than forthcoming in refuting it. And the original interview remains as it was on the same site.
My impression is that Radjabov (no matter what his personal beliefs are) is cynically trying to do some triangulation here. He feels obliged to stick to the party line (and thus no outright retraction of the offensive language) and at the same time he needs to remain on good terms with the organizers of Corus, Linares, etc - and thus his half-hearted attempt at "clarification".
It would be interesting to watch his further public statements. I suppose that he will be pressed by some (non-Azeri) journalists to clarify his position.
At the same time, I realize that I am not qualified to comment on the atmosphere in today's Azerbaijan. If you are familiar with the current situation there (as I am not), perhaps you could shed some light on something I have no clue about. How free is Radjabov to speak his mind in today's Baku?
A Jewish father (without a Jewish mother) makes him 0% Jewish, not 50%.
A Jewish mother (without a Jewish father) makes him 100% Jewish, not 50%.
OK, that makes him 0% Jewish and 50% Muslim. Sounds right to you?
I am Azeri, and I think I can provide some insight to this as I feel closer to the problem.
1. As for "thank Allah", it is the same thing as any of you would say "thank God" regardless of whether you believe in God or not. It's just a figure of speach, meaning "luckily" or "fortunately". As far as I know, Radjabov (as probably 90-95% of Azerbaijani population) is not religious.
2. Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict doesn't have religious roots. In general, Armenians are more religious than Azeris, because their church is an important factor in their ethnic identity, whereas for the Azeris it is not. Nevertheless, the cause of this conflict is certainly not religion.
3. Imagine yourself living in a country where 1 out of 8 persons is a refugee, a counrty which lost tens of thousands of people in the war, and lost nearly 20% of its territory. No one has mentioned all this in this thread, on the contrary there were posts here accusing Azerbaijan of "genocidal" past (and conveniently "forgetting" what Armenians did in Khojaly). Anyway, my point is - if you lived in such a country, you would certainly not anything associated with the enemy. So please see the situation in the proper context.
I currently live in France. The French and the Germans are in good relations now. But I personally know several old French people who have lived through World War II - they still admit to have had feelings of hate towards Germans and refuse to travel to Germany for any reason. These people are surely not jingoist or racist or nationalist - they simply had the misfortune of living at the time of war.
It is easy and surely not very competent to judge people without having actually been through what these people have been through.
4. As an Azeri, I could, in a certain context, say that I hate Armenia and anything related to it. The only reason is the recent past between our countries and I have no other reason for it. But that doesn't mean that I hate each individual Armenian and have no respect to them as humans, or to their culture. I am not racist and I don't consider them to be less humans than myself. In fact, I know here some Armenians whom I see and talk to on almost daily basis and there is no feelings of hate between us. There is a big difference in the notions of "hate", if you try, and are able to, understand it.
5. And lastly - I have no doubt whatsoever that Radjabov did not say the words that were attributed to him. Yes, I am sure for him any game against an Armenian is more special than other games - and it is simply because you cannot ignore your opponent's nationality and expectations of your fans back home - it is always on your mind. But it's no about "hating" your inividual Armenian opponent just because he is Armenian. He simply represents the country which is in war with your country.
I think what chessbase did - namely putting that quote in the headline of their article - was a very cheap shot. They saw it as a chance of making a scandal without trying to understand the situation. They knowingly made Radjabov the object of ridicule and criticism for something that he has not done and is not responsible for, and surely he does not deserve to be treated like this.
I admit that many people in both of our countries have made and are still making provocative statements very often, but why hold Radjabov solely responsible for what is going on between two nations?
Mig, a little clarification - "Black January" refers to the events of 20 January 1990 when the Soviet troops entered Baku and massacred more than 130 people in one night. The stated reason for that were pogroms of Armenians, although many disagree with this, insisting it was mostly a pretext to thwart the independence movement in Azerbaijan.
As to the pogroms (and I don't condone them in any manner) - it shouldn't be forgotten that, by that time, starting from the end of 1987 and in the beginning of 1988 all Azeris living in Armenia (we are talking about 250 thousand people here) were forced to flee from their homes and most of them came to Baku as refugees. That's surely an ideal social base for any pogrom.
My point is - the situation and the conflict is very complicated and both sides have done things they should be ashamed of. Radjabov cannot be forced to endure public humiliation for all this even if he said those worlds (which I am sure he did not say in the first place).
Vugar, thank you for your interesting post(s). I do disagree with you on a number of points.
I'd rather not go into detailed history of the war, even if my recollection of its course is quite different (and, being neither Azeri nor Armenian, I don't have any particular reason to favor one side over the other.) It is understandable that different people have different narratives.
Let us rather stay with Radjabov. In my view, he, like any other human being, is absolutely entitled to any opinion on any given subject. If he hates Armenia and/or Armenians, so be it. If he does not, so much the better. However, he is apparently trying to do both at the same time, and with that I do have a slight problem. I think I am still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt - just let him issue a real clarification.
With regards to your comment about chessbase ("a very cheap shot") - I don't see how it is their fault. It was not their idea to use that headline in the first place - check out the original interview on the original site. Was it a cheap shot to bring an article posted on an obscure Azeri site to the attention of chess public? I don't see how.
And here is the point of view of an Armenian newspaper. An article entitled "Zombie at the Chessboard" (in Russian):
http://www.golos.am/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17481
Are we by any chance being quoted?
dz,
thanks for the link to Armenian newspaper. For those of you who cannot read Russian it is a return portion of venom towards Azeris. Unfortunately, for media in these two countries it is a national sport to pour dirt on each other.
Regarding how much freedom of speech Radjabov has over there, I think he can say anything but journalists only would publish what they think is "worth" printing.
And I agree with dz and Vugar, lets us rather stay with Radjabov. We don't want to dig deeper into the roots of this conflict - there is no right or wrong side here. As person who lived in Baku for many years and neither Azeri nor Armenian (so can claim my neutrality) I agree with most in Vugar's posts.
Lets go back to ("nashim baranam") Radjabov. I haven't meet him personally but was following his career for many years. And he reminds me more and more the previous version of Beast from Baku (whom I met first back in 1978). As well as Kasparov he is obviously extremely smart, well-spoken, well-read, political savvy, a little arrogant, and had a huge ego. I wish him the best, I think he has a great future, but that may be not the last controversy we will hear about him.
Ilymzhinov declared that Radjabov's words are "unacceptable", according to Armenian TV, as quoted by a Russian news agency.
http://www.regnum.ru/news/sport/916026.html
I have no clue whatsoever as to whether or not this source is reliable.
hey morons out there!
suppose radjabov had said i hate the blacks, or the jews, would that make you tell he was entitled to his opinions. bunch of asstunnels y'all.
Please let this comment of mine be the only reply to the above post from a self-named troll ("jack mehoffer") who made it clear he read no actual comments in the thread, so can be posting only in hopes of getting "a rise" out of somebody (which is the dictionary definition of "troll").
At most one or two earlier commenters stated that Radjabov "was entitled to his opinions." All the rest attributed the seeming venom in his published remarks to misquotation or biased reporting; or else placed the remarks in their historical context that makes clear they are not simply one man's personal opinions, but an outgrowth of a difficult and complex (and sad) situation between two countries.
dear john jacobs,
please feel free to avail yourself to the information about atrocities committed against innocent people by the azeri pathological nationalists in the name of "an outgrowth of a difficult and complex (and sad) situation between two countries." sadly it is sentiments such as radjabov's that breed the sort of violence you will find rather hard not to condemn if only in the name of trying to understand the "outgrowth of a difficult and complex (and sad) situation between two countries." do visit to the following website and see what do the azeri leadership as well as the hoi poloi think of one such pthological nationalist, a certain ramil safarov, who hacked an armenian classmate of his in his sleep, while the world watched on and tried to understand the "outgrowth of a difficult and complex (and sad) situation between two countries."
Radjabov, sadly and one could only wish, was a true sportsman, and not a banal Machiavel a victim of his own grandeur and education.
http://budapest.sumgait.info/azerbaijani-response.htm
anything but a harsh condemnation of radjabov's statements are only adding insult to injury to the armenian chess team and by extension to all armenians. and needless to say it is the accumulation of the hatred of the lies of radjabov that ultimately leads to genocide, a phenomenon armenians are all too familiar with.
CHRISTOPHER WALKER
The Times (London)
March 12 1988, Saturday
A Muslim mob broke into a maternity ward in the Azerbaijani city of Sumgait during ethnic rioting, disembowelled pregnant Armenian women and killed babies, according to a chilling account of the recent violence provided by the first independent witness to return from the city, now under military curfew and closed to foreigners.
Andrei Shilkov, an editor of the Soviet underground journal Glasnost, yesterday painted a horrific picture of atrocities he alleged had taken place in the city late last month. While KGB agents monitored his flat, Mr Shilkov, aged 36, told newsmen inside that he had been informed by different residents, including Russians with no particular ethnic axe to grind, that Armenians had been flung into the streets by rampaging mobs of Azerbaijanis.
The worst single incident in the violence on February 28 and 29 is said to have occurred in a maternity hospital. Mr Shilkov quoted an account provided to him by an Azerbaijani nurse who had been working there but who had now left the city in disgust.
'The killers broke into the maternity hospital and doctors were made at knifepoint to show them where the Armenian women were lying,' Mr Shilkov told the shocked correspondents. 'They disembowelled them all in a bloodbath. The new babies were held by the legs and swung and smashed against the wall and then 'thrown out of the windows.'
The dissident, who produced a black and white photograph of Soviet armoured personnel carriers on the streets of Sumgait, said that all the city's 18,000-strong Armenian minority had either fled or were living in public buildings under heavy guard.
To support his claims about the savagery - which he alleged was being deliberately covered up - Mr Shilkov quoted two other residents of Sumgait, a city of 180,000 people situated on the Caspian Sea. 'I spoke with an Azerbaijani woman whose upstairs neighbours were Armenians,' he said. 'She saw the mob throw the Armenian daughter, a young girl, out of the window. When they realized that she was not dead they threw a heavy wardrobe down on top of her to kill her.'
Mr Shilkov also described the testimony of a man he described as a 'Russified Armenian', aged 29, who was setting on to work in the Azerbaijani capital of Baku when the violence was taking place. 'It was like a strange modern film,' Mr Shilkov quoted him as saying. 'I was walking down the middle of the road while on both sides they were throwing people and furniture from the windows of apartment blocks.'
The dissident reported that residents he spoke to during six hours in the troubled city on Wednesday had openly ridiculed the official death toll of 32. He said that people were speaking of several hundred deaths in the rioting sparked by radio reports of the murder of two Azerbaijanis.
'Never in my life did I see such a massive concentration of troops in bullet-proof vests and steel helmets,' Mr Shilkov said.
Another dissident, Mr Sergei Grigoryants, the chief editor of Glasnost magazine, revealed details of the situation in the Armenian capital of Yerevan, also out of bounds to newsmen. He said that 15 Kremlin experts with first hand knowledge of the Solidarity movement in Poland had been despatched there to work out a strategy to defuse the nationalist unrest. Mr Grigoryants, who has been the main conduit of information about the crisis, said that in imitation of Solidarity, Armenian nationalists had now formed into committees in their work places with elected leaderships.
Mr Grigoryants said that the Yerevan organizing committee, which had about 100 members, planned to call a three-day general strike starting on March 26 if they did not receive satisfaction by then on their key demand - that the mountainous enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh be returned from Azerbaijani to Armenian control.
Interesting thread thus far.
As long as Radjabov plays good chess, his comments (and this thread) would soon be forgotten, with only occasional reference if in the future he gives similar comments.
Other top GMs have given comments in the past that can also be viewed as controversial. There is one that quit chess and moved into politics, others that were more concerned with plumbing than chess (but is coming back), and others that are just forgotten.
What's the big deal, anyway? Looking at the Geographic data, it turns out that Azerbaijan has nearly thrice the area as little Armenia. So, why can't Azerbaijan share a bit, and just cede Nagorno-Karabakh (which is overwhelmingly comprised of ethnic Armenians to Armenia. In return, maybe Armenia would be willing to annex the Nakhichevan exclave into a "Greater" Armenia. That would still render Armenia to be little more than half the size of Azerbaijan. Naturally, Armenia will also need to control the "Lachin Corridor", as well as all of the territories adjacent to Nagorno-Karabakh. Finally, it is obvious that the territorial integrity of N_K ought to be restored, by incorporating the District of Shahumian (part of the Gorenboy "rayon"), as well as the Independent City of Naftalan--both of which are claimed by the Nogorno-Karabakh Republic.
By the way, does anybody have a good explanation for why Azerbaijan, a country with a population nearly 3 times the size of Armenia's, could lose the war so resoundingly?
Armenia:
total area: 29,800 sq km
2,971,650 (July 2007 est.)
Azerbaijan:
total area: 86,600 sq km
8,120,247 (July 2007 est.)
Nagorno-Karabakh:
Area:- Total 4,400 km²
Nakhichevan exclave
Area:- Total 5,500 km²
A Jewish father (without a Jewish mother) makes him 0% Jewish, not 50%.
A Jewish mother (without a Jewish father) makes him 100% Jewish, not 50%.
Posted by: gg at November 15, 2007 11:50
------------------------------
"OK, that makes him 0% Jewish and 50% Muslim. Sounds right to you?"
That is just plain silly: Radjabov's religious identity is solely determined by him. If he considers himself to be Jewish (there is, of course, no evidence that he does), then he is Jewish. Obviously, Jewish religious law may impact whether **other** Jews consider Radjabov to be Jewish (although I doubt that the Jewish communities in the Caucasus would be inflexible with respect to the application of ancestral criteria).
DOug:
"By the way, does anybody have a good explanation for why Azerbaijan, a country with a population nearly 3 times the size of Armenia's, could lose the war so resoundingly?"
I think I do (at least I have an explanation that seems convincing to me), but I'd rather not publish it here, sorry. Not always wise to keep adding fuel to the fire. Just a hint: doesn't it surprise you that one small Middle Eastern country managed (a number of times!) to trounce much more resoundingly a combined bunch of armies of its neighbors - being outnumbered much more than 3:1?
Your great recipe for the conflict solution may not work in the foreseeable future, I am afraid.
As far as religions, percentages and "plain silly things" are concerned - I think the whole religious discussion (Allah - God - Muslim - Jewish - whatever...) is silly and does not belong here.
Just to clarify my little facetious remark about our hero being 0% Jewish and 50% Muslim. This is a well-known mix-up: whereas in the West the word "Jewish" first and foremost means religion, in the Soviet Union (and now its fragments) it means ethnicity. And to add to the confusion, the term used to specify it was in fact "nationality." All Soviet citizens had to carry internal passports having besides the usual name, d.o.b., etc., a cell for nationality. And Jewish people thereby had their nationality stamped as "Jew."
So percentages here can obviously speak of ethnic heritage only, not religious affiliation. "50% Azeri and 50% Jewish" would therefore make sense - unlike "50% Muslim and 50% Jewish", which is of course plain silly, as you have correctly pointed out.
Enough of this business, please. This thread is about Radjabov's interview, not his ethnic make-up.
"My problem is what exactly we think Radjabov ought to be "innocent" of. Some seem to claim that he's "innocent" of being a dyed-in-the-wool Muslim -- as if this were something one "reserves judgement on" until evidence proves you guilty. And this, by the way, is what I think is "preposterous", DOug. Not the desire to understand properly what Radjabov said, but the subjectiong of his religious beliefs to some absurd quasi-forensic examination -- before, what? We find out he really is a Muslim? Is a bad Muslim? Invokes Allah occasionally?"
Theorist, I think it is manifestly true that the more intense the faith of the religious adherant (at least within the montheistic tradition), the greater the liklihood that such a person will harbor intolerance of people who hold other, competing beliefs. The major monotheistic religions--Judaism, Christianity, and Islam-- make competing, mutually exclusive claims. Moreover, there is the belief in the idea of an "Absolute" truth. If it is confirmed that he identifies himself as a Muslim, then the next step would be to determine the nature (intensity and extent) of his religious beliefs, to establish whether Islam might have contributed to any notions of intolerance--religious or otherwise--which he may harbor. However, it must first be established that Radjabov is in fact a bigot, before an inquiry into the influences of his attitudes can be meaningfully conducted. In my opinion, the question of his bigotry has yet to be conclusively resolved.
You may find it preposterous that somebody's religious beliefs are subject to such scrutiny. Indeed, back when there was still dispute about whether or not Mel Gibson is a Jew Hater, his defenders were also deeming it "preposterous" that revelations about the nature of Gibson's relgious belief could yield data that would provide meaningful insight into Gibson's mindset.
As you might recall, prior to his arrest in Malibu, Gibson's defenders energetically rejected the notion that his religious affiliation might have contributed to his adoption of religiously bigoted ideology, simply because they were unwilling to countenance the possibility that Gibson was a bigot. This trenchant reaction would have continued even to this day, if Gibson's actions and statements on the night of his arrest hadn't rendered such denialism utterly absurd.
I would maintain that it is even more "preposterous" to simply dismiss the importance of bits of information out of hand, merely because of the notion that such inquiry into personal religious belief is somehow inappropriate or "out of bounds".
The people who pegged Gibson as a bigot were able to do so precisely because they engaged in the subjection of his "his religious beliefs to some absurd quasi-forensic examination".
So, yes, on the basis of one incident, it seems prudent to "reserve judgment on" Radjabov... until he provides us with more information to proceed with the examination. It is the nature of such inquiries (about a person's character)--and indeed, of skeptical inquiry in general--that data will tend to accrue, until the point is reached where it is generally accepted that a preponderance of evidence points to the conclusion that the "Charges" have been proven.
Radjabov could of course "pay down" the burdon of his comments. For instance, he could opt to in Armenia, in a Chess Tournament that would have the purpose of raising funds for Armenian widows and orphans of the Nagorno-Karobakh war. In the US, he might simply go to "sensitivity training", or even check himself into a clinic for "rehabilitative treatment".
However, if he has been given wise council, he will simply refrain from references to Armenians in the future. However, it'll be tough, since you can bet he'll face additional questions in future interviews, and he will be given ample opportunity to elaborate on his feelings.
Vugar and others, it is true that many comments "made" by Radjabov or others here have a historical and cultural context. That doesn't mean that is is honorable or correct to rationalize them away.
Do you think it would be right for Kasparov to say that he hates all Azeris? Even if he had to flee for his life from the rabid mobs described in the March 12 article by Christopher Walker from the Times (London) above? Or to hate all Turks for having conducted the 1st genocide fo the 20th century? Understandable but surely not right.
Radjabov may simply be a sacrificied pawn of the well-oiled Azeri propagnada machine. That doesn't mean we should make excuses for him, or be jaded in our response to hate, racism, and this kind of deplorable talk.
Shame on Radjabov, and shame on those who see nothing wrong with what has transpired. He is a disgrace to chess and to Azerbaijan. He is a more appropriate champion of racist hatred and invective. Azerbaijan's Goodwill Ambassador to UNICEF...amazing.
Gee, I didn't want to return to this madness. Just stop the rubbish already.
"Do you think it would be right for Kasparov to say that he hates all Azeris?"
Why do you ask such a question when there is obviously NOTHING to suggest that Radjabov has said the analogous thing about Armenians. He was terribly misquoted in a headline. That's all.
Have people no shame at all?
"there is obviously NOTHING to suggest that Radjabov has said the analogous thing about Armenians"
Right. Obviously, a case of mass hallucination.
For those still interested in this discussion of Radjabov's imaginary interview - check out this Armenian forum:
http://www.yerevan.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=25199
There is something of possible interest even to people who do not know Russian. The prevailing sentiment, obviously, is "We must react!" On the very first page there is a couple of lists (easily locatable) of some e-mail addresses which can be used if anyone wishes to do so. On page 3, there is an open letter, along with English translation, written by an Armenian journalist.
"Why do you ask such a question when there is obviously NOTHING to suggest that Radjabov has said the analogous thing about Armenians. He was terribly misquoted in a headline. That's all."
You've mentioned the headline twice now, acirce, but the headline certainly isn't a misquotation. The whole interview it's an accurate quotation from might be fabricated, sure, but it's anyone's guess how you're 100% sure of that when even Radjabov himself didn't come out and say so clearly.
Quite the opposite, acirce. He actually had an opportunity (he CREATED it, with an open non-retraction "clarification" letter).
Radjabov did not disagree with any of the racist venom. Had a chance to undo some damage. Did nothing of the sort.
If I were "terribly misquoted" in a headline as you put it, I would be sure to set the record straight in a retraction letter.
I have no respect for Radjabov as a person.
Another webpage with photos of Aronian and Mamedyarov dancing together: http://greekchessphotos.blogspot.com/2007/11/armenian-dancing-with-azeri.html These 2 great GMs are real peace ambassadors!
And another link describing Chessbase actions as a "disgrace": http://chesslodge.blogspot.com/2007/11/chessbase-is-disgrace.html