Mig 
Greengard's ChessNinja.com

2010 US Championship

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[Crap, had this saved as a draft last night and didn't notice it hadn't published when I finished it this morning. I'm bumping the time up from the original 10:48am so you can find it.]

It starts today in St. Louis, round begins at 3pm ET, which I think is 2pm local time in my grandmother's old home state of Mizzurrah. Live coverage here. It's a prize fund that deserves the field and a field that deserves the prize fund. There are also some twists to the format, so do read the fine print. It's a 24-player swiss system event. After seven rounds the top four are teleported into a three-round all-play-all (aka a quad) for the title, with their swiss scores intact. Those Left Behind continue the final two rounds of the swiss with fifth prize as the goal. Considering that fifth prize is $10,000, richer than most first prizes on the circuit, that's not too shabby. First prize is $35,000 from a total prize fund of over $170,000. That's Rex Sinquefield coming through big time again.

There are downsides and upsides to every format, balancing the size and strength of the field against the desire for drama and rigor, with these things often in conflict. At least this avoids scheduled rapid games. As we have discussed many times here, I'm not nearly as interested in rigor in national championship and other non-world championship events in general since the priorities can be quite different. Trying to promote chess in the US has unique challenges and experimentation should be encouraged. Two players in the quad will get 2/3 whites, which hurts the rigor, but going to six rounds would be brutal and color disparity is better than rapid.

What we do know for sure is that this is one of the strongest fields in the history of the US championship, with a good claim on being the strongest. A few elitists out there may say that a field with Fischer, Reshevsky, and ten well-trained baboons would be stronger just because of the world championship class of the legends. But this is nonsense since it takes great competition to have a great event -- and the top end of the 2010 field is also world class. Nakamura and Kamsky are confirmed elite stars on the global stage and the rest of the Olympiad team are proven contenders, with several former US champions as well. Veterans like Onischuk, Akobian, Shulman, Shabalov, and Stripunsky will have to fight off top young stars Hess, Lenderman, Shankland, and Robson. Hall of Famers Christiansen and Benjamin are also there. Christiansen qualified as the US Senior Champion, which makes me feel old, if not as old as Christiansen, heh. Go LarryC! Should be great stuff.

101 Comments

Jen Shahade said that Shankland was talking trash to Hess yesterday when they were out to lunch. I guess he will be eating crow for dinner. :)

What's the deal with the apocalyptic, end of days link? Is that where we're headed, just when the US Championship was getting really good?

What a great first round!

classic larryc quotable: "My monroi it added extra black pieces, I almost destroyed it" [he was white]

The US championship website this year sucks. No results page ! Website is too slow. Last year , it was far better.

yea but I have faith they will fix it. Not sure why they redesigned it at all since the last one was so awesome.

So could someone get four Blacks in the first seven rounds then get two more Blacks in the three round finale?

What a nice live coverage the have, this makes chess even remotedly interesting :D ... irina krush, naka, gata, jennifer, roy... Everyone seems so involved and relaxed , Great stuff, I'm really impressed.

What a great first round! Naka-Hess today!

And congrats to Larry "That Ain't Gonna Happen" Christiansen. He didn't want to be the spokesman for Monroi anyway.

If I could just throw in a few words of praise for Shulman. Go Yuri!

Of course, Fischer and Reshevsky were titans of American chess. But, often the rest of the field was weak compared to today's championships. Only IMs or national masters in the bottom half of the tournament.

Then again, the typical IM of those days would easily be a GM today.

Hikaru needs a haircut.

Just an observation ...

CO

Was the live page showing two identical DGT boards so people with special glasses could see it in 3D? Oh, now it's one. I guess they went live with their testing setup yesterday. Broadcast has hung on me a few times yesterday and today, but mostly up. Results page is there, too. No website survives the first encounter with the user; it's how quickly they adapt that matters.

Great chess so far, wonderful to see every top player at the board.

Fyi, CO, I'm waiting till it gets super long so I can shave it all off for a charitable cause.

Yes, but back when Fischer and Reshevsky were playing, IMs were easily GM strength today thanks to the spectacular inflation of titles.

I am happy that you agree with me.

Yes agree, along with Evans, Benko, Robert Bryne. I'd take those top five and destroy the top five from this super-tournament. I will say Kamsky is an elite International player, but to call Naka an Elite Global International Star player that made me laugh. How many super tournaments has he won, Is he more elite than the great Loek Van Wely? Cheparinov? Good one, rofl

Awesome! I'm actually going to dye my hair pink for Komen for the Cure -- wanna contribute?

Seriously,

CO

I have always been a big fan of what I call the "St. Petersburg" format, where there is an initial round robin followed by a smaller round robin of the top finishers, and the first scores are carried through. Named after St. Petersburg 1914, of course. I like the fact that you retain the information of who did particularly well in the first phase, while not wasting lots of games between players out of the running. The pure knockout is nice because all games always matter, but it's a shame that you don't get rewarded for doing particularly well in a knockout early round.

Not sure about the idea of starting with a Swiss instead of a round robin, but I think I like it. Start with Swiss to be inclusive, finish with non-Swiss to be effective at deciding the top finishers. The point about having an extra black game in both phases is a significant one; maybe a thoughtful use of tiebreaker rules could make up for that, as in maybe the #1 tiebreaker, even ahead of head-to-head, is the number of games with Black.

So you say that "but to call Naka an Elite Global International Star player that made me laugh". Can you clarify who made pinned that label on Naka? And yes, Naka is definitely more elite that Loek and Ivan.

The number one tiebreaker in the initial swiss stage is number of blacks. While no one will be eliminated from the competition on a tie (they will all be given a chance to at least play a playoff game with someone they are tied with), it is possible to advance to the Championship quad on a tie. Let me give an example.

Let's say there is a 3 way tie for 3rd-5th. 1st+2nd have already qualified to the final four. Now whoever has the best tiebreaks of the 3rd-5th place finishers instantly qualifies into the Final four. The other two play the playoff for the last spot.

Also, let's say there is something like a 3 way tie for fourth place. The player with the better tiebreaks (and the 1st tiebreak is #of blacks), will not have to play the first match of the tiebreaker. Basically 2 would play 3, so 1 would receive a bye.

While it's clear that it's annoying if you have to get too many blacks, there are countermeasures/rewards that focus on the players who had to have an extra black, at least in the qualifying stage. (4 out of 7 blacks is annoying, especially when there is a small possibility of ending up with 6/10 blacks)

Forgive me if that was confusing, but basically, depending on how things play out, someone could end up being really happy to have gotten the black pieces in round 7.

btw if anyone has any questions in particular on the rules/tiebreak systems etc, just ask. I basically know them all and understand that they are somewhat difficult to find online. I will answer them as quickly as possible.

Looking forward to Kamsky-Nakamura tomorrow. Should be a great game!

Excellent may i can suggest to donate the hair to save the Gulf . And good luck against shorthair Kamsky :) .

Wow, apparently one of the first things Nakamura did after winning his game yesterday was ... go online and check this site! Probably dinner in between, but before he switched to ICC to play a few blitz or bullet games?! ,:)

On his strength: I would say he is now a confirmed subtop player (top 20-30), maybe with potential for more. IMO he is in the same league as Karjakin and Vachier-Lagrave, while their big tournament victories in 2009 may be worth a little more:
Karjakin - clear first at Corus ahead of Carlsen, Aronian, ...
Vachier-Lagrave - clear first at Biel ahead of Ivanchuk, Morozevich and Gelfand
Nakamura - shared first (before blitz playoff) at San Sebastian.

On the overall strength of the US Championship: I am glad that the website gives FIDE ratings rather than, by comparison, inflated USCF ratings - makes it easier for Europeans to gauge the strength of players they hardly heard of before (in my case Stripunsky and Altounian).

just a shout-out here. Go Ray! I'm rooting for you all the way.

You will need to read the article at the beginning to see who said it, sorry. Internationally imho Loek and Chepa are more respected and I don't think anyone would call them elite, even themselves. But to Nakahomers, the world is a strange and wonderous place.

Started watching the live video relay with Shahade and Ashley (http://saintlouischessclub.org/live), a little while before the game Kamsky - Nakamura ended. Wow, what a show. The game commentary, the players joining the commentators right after the game ends, the video footage, this show just rocks! :)

On the liverating list, Nakamura is tied with Leko, and rated higher than Ivanchuk, Svidler, Ponomariov, Morozevich, Adams, and Radjabov, among others. Sounds pretty elite to me.

True, but ratings are not the the end all, if he played a match with any of the players you mentioned he would be the underdog in everyone. So much for ratings when it comes to money and betting lines.

Oh, Irina!

This rook and pawn ending even was surely a draw, but of course it's not easy on increment.

The website still sucks. I cannot see the live games. I cannot see the results of the games which have already completed.

The Grandprix website is much better. I can follow the games online and know the results and the situation on the board immediately.

Mig is very critical of the websites from other countries but when his American buddies screw up he is all complimentary.

I hope Jay is just making some Naka jokes. Because Cheparinov is not comparable at all internationally and Van Wely is a very weak case. Van Wely is recognized as the punching bag for all super GM's having a bad tournament and needing a win. I'm not a Naka fan but you gotta put up some better cases. Vachier Lagrave? I'll take Maxime! Vitiugov? I'll take him as well. But Van Wely and Cheparinov are definitely not more respected or known. In a match especially, Van Wely's style plays perfectly into a calculating machine like Naka.

"Nakamura is tied with Leko, and rated higher than Ivanchuk, Svidler, Ponomariov, Morozevich, Adams, and Radjabov, among others. Sounds pretty elite to me."

Nakamura is a legitimate 2700 rated player, but he has yet to demonstrate more. He'll get invited to some Elite tournaments, and he may lose back some of his ratings points then.

I hope that he gets the chance, because he has a fighting, dynamic style.

I'd guess that he's on a par with Ponomariov, and maybe Svidler, and currently there is a clear gap, where players like Ivanchuk, Radjabov, and Leko are still a cut above Nakamura.

By that, I mean that I would expect them to handily prevail pver Nakamura in a match of length (comprised of 10+ games). In that sense, Nakamura is superior to the players listed above in the same way that Topalov, by virtue of his higher rating, is superior to Anand. ELO is a great tool, but there is no sense in fetishizing every point.

When it comes to Blitz (especially Internet Blitz), Nakamura is truly one of the Super Elite....

I love how people who know basically just the rules of chess pontificate endlessly on why the number 12 player is actually a cut above the number 10 player. Nakamura seemed to hold his own against most of the top guys in Corus having Carlsen in trouble and beating Shirov. He blundered in a tough position against Kramnik, but stuff happens.

Of course Naka is more elite than Ivanchuck, what was I thinking, I am only 2400 you geniouses are much better than me please continue typing with Naka's balls down your throat, cause you can not speak.

so true.

Nakamura was capable to hold a draw against Kamsky in a thrilling 3rd round , a tragecy that Krush managed to loose against Akobian .

I would not bet on Ivanchuk or Radjabov in a 10 game match against Nakamura.

Nakamura-Ivanchuk would be a match I'd like to see!

I think Nakamura didn't just blunder against Kramnik, he was outplayed as his chess understanding may be a bit inferior - of course it takes at least one mistake to lose a game of chess. Same goes for his loss against Aronian at the World Team Championship, also January this year.
So he is still lacking something, but here I compare him with the top5 who are a cut above the rest. There is a gap between #5 and and #6, at least in terms of consistency. There is no such gap between #10 and #11 - or between #1 and #2.

C'mon guys; people like Kramnik regularly say that Ivanchuk's understanding of chess is on a par with theirs. Leko's played a world title match, Ivanchuk's won Linares, Moro's been fourth in the Candidates/WV/whatever you want to call San Luis.

hey don't say that about Nakamura yet, and he's not done anything on that scale. Whether he will one day, who knows? Rating schmating. Run away and talk among yourselves about how Topalov's better than Anand 'cos he's 2804 or whatever it is.

A better yardstick to whether this is the strongest US Championship ever might be the world rankings of the players. I suspect people like Larry Evans and Robert Byrne (a candidate back when that meant something, after all), and for that matter some of the other guys who were losing to Fischer, were at least as strong by this criterion as most of today's field.

"people like Kramnik regularly say that Ivanchuk's understanding of chess is on a par with theirs."
Agreed (if Kramnik says so, who am I to disagree? ,:) ) but that's why I wrote "in terms of consistency" the top 5 are in their own league. Ivanchuk, Morozevich, Shirov ... all lack such consistency.
Regarding Leko: his undeniable achievement - qualifying, playing and drawing a WCh match - has sort of "expired" by now!? Though he doesn't yet follow the track of former WCh Karpov (who would most likely lose a match against Nakamura).

i'd contribute to a fund guaranteeing at least 10 game match.

Off-topic, but the last two games b/w Short and Giri in the Netherlands were a great deal of fun to play through! Very exciting chess.

The stench of troll is strong here...

Anyway, didn't Nakamura beat Ivanchuk and Vachier when he was weaker than he is now? Just sayin...

Comparing US Championships from the Fischer era to the current one, keep in mind that the playing pool is much larger today, perhaps by an order of magnitude of 10x. So the top ten back then would find themselves spread out among the top 100 today. Given that, the field Fischer played against would largely not have qualified to play in this championship. Fischer going 11-0 was an amazing feat. Transport Fischer to the present and he would, of course, never pull off that kind of feat.

"I would not bet on Ivanchuk or Radjabov in a 10 game match against Nakamura."

Agreed. How many posters here know as much about chess as Greg does? The Naka/US chess bashing is so 15 minutes ago. Just pretend you you did it already and then don't. Naka 2738.9 is tied with Leko as #14 in the live ratings. Give him the respect he deserves and lighten up.

Is this the Greg who guaranteed Kramnik would beat Anand? Yeah he knows lots, none of which I want to know.

I am somewhere in between, neither praising Nakamura into heaven nor questioning that he is part of the extended world elite (top 20 or top 30, but not yet stable top 10). He climbed on the live rating list by beating Stripunsky (2570) and Hess (2590), at the same time Ivanchuk lost some live rating points and fell behind him because he "Astrakhant".

The real criterion for Nakamura is how he does in stronger events than the US Championship, evidence so far:
San Sebastian - good
London - at best mediocre
Corus A - good

What's next for him? Apparently he was on the preliminary invitation list for MTel before it was cancelled.

Pretty sure I never guaranteed kramnik would beat anand.(in fact I though anand would win) You obviously have me mixed up with someone else.

Anyway obviously ivanchuk might beat nakamura in a match, but I do think nakamura would have quite good chances.

What do Hans Arild Runde and Betty White have in common (as of 5/17/2010)?

The live commentary is amusing. Maurice Ashley has strong opinions with his analysis and Jennifer Shahade is acting like she can't stand him - constantly making clucking sounds and rolling her eyes. These antics, on top of her rather standard but unfortunately highly nasal voice, is really quite comical. it seems to me that she usually kisses up to GMs, so what's her problem in this case?

You're reading it wrong, they have great chemistry and that's just Jen being Jen. She's a clucker, what can I say.

Anyone else having problems with U.S. Champsion web site today? Sound is being dropped, going in and out ... not sure if it's my DLS connection or not but it's a bit irritating....

live site crap for me too, buffering every few seconds.

Who is that with Jen today?

Jen's brother Greg Shahade, who is an International Master. Hopefully they'll fix the sound...

I want Ashley back and I will stop at nothing until it happens.

Hopefully he'll be back tomorrow ... I think he's mc'ing a Karpov fundraiser in NY today... today's coverage has been awful ... and to think Mig complains about spotting internet coverage overseas ... this has been the worst I've seen...

Are the times on the official site game applet accurate?

hopefully greg shahade takes jen's place when maurice gets back. he's much better than she is.

"What do Hans Arild Runde and Betty White have in common (as of 5/17/2010)?"

They currently 'host' the top two Google hits for "live ratings."

Pretty game by Christiansen. 28...Nc1 was a smack up-side the head.


Rd3, Irine Krush - Roy Robson are in a Rook vs Rook+Bishop endgame that has gone from book draw to win to book draw to win to book draw to win.

Robson has been under a minute on the clock for half a dozen moves. he better be carefull of a flag fall.

It's gone from win in 20 to draw again.

Several times Robson has set up an only move position and Krush didn't find the right move but then he lets her off with a wrong move of his own. Both have been under 1 minute on the clock for several moves now

64. Ke1 was a mistake and allows mate in 13 with Re2. (Re8 was the only move)

66. --- Rf7 gives back the draw. Rd7 would be mate in 11.

67. Re5 Krush finds the only move to draw.

68. Kc1 allows mate in 21. (Kd1 was the only move that draws)

Presumably ...Be4 allowing Nxg6 giving up the knight was a blunder already, and ...Rc6 just wins, or is some subtlety eluding me?

Opps, my mistake. Krush is black and has the Rook+Bishop.

71. --- Kc3 and the game is a book draw again. Rook back to a2 is mate in 20.

Robson played correctly to move 93 and held the draw.

Krush is going for her second GM norm and will regret letting this one get away.


Sorry, thought they were talking about the clown Koster, Respect your opinions but Ivanchuck vs Naka, I would bet the farm on that at anything at -150 or less. I make a living betting everything from Olympics (my best bet was the Spanish team + 56 vs the dream team, they were treated so good, they could never destroy them that bad) but I bet chess too as I was prettty good in my youth , I have bet 6 matches and have won them all, the only sport I am undefeated. Have just bet the Magjic at even money to beat Boston while they are down 1-0. I have nothing against Naka , though he is an @ss, but that does not concern me. But if I could get any of those other players as pick or even -120 against him in a match it would be stealing. I made lines for a living for 20 years and Naka would not be favored even against Van Wely, sorry. But Naka homers, your boy has done nothing close to spectacular in the international scene, and his best bet is to stay away. He would get desroyed with his weak openings and endgames, sorry, but if he does play a match I will put 20,000 us dollars at even money with a true elitist at matchbook.com

Who would you like to see as the 4th player in the final quad? I'd like to see LarryC. He could do it. He's not that much weaker than the 4th-5th seeds. Re the previous post: Yeah, Naka's 14 in the world, because his openings and endgames are weak. :rolling eyes:

Does anyone know the formula for determining the number of rounds required in a Swiss tournament as a function of the number of competitors?

(apologies: my copy of Chess Competitor's Handbook, which I think contains the formula, is floating towards me, on a boat, but by my calculations is currently about 5000 miles away, as the bird flies, which a boat can't)

"Have just bet the Magjic at even money to beat Boston while they are down 1-0."

Boston's up 2-0 so the Magic would have to win 4 out of 5, genius.

Also, Boston has never lost when up 2-0, the Magic have never won when down 0-2, and since the Magic choked twice at home, they have to win at least 2 out of 3 in Boston plus win 2 home games. Yeah, #14 in the world Naka is weak and you're a strong professional odds maker. lol

shabalov said no one is using fritz or rybka??

how much is a 10-game match going to cost for top 10 and naka-boy? i guess 40-20K in prize money minimal, and overhead about the same? depending on how much publicity you want though. if its just a london 500-seat theatre with minimal web coverage and zero press push, that can save a lot, but then sponsors are a no-go, and i don't think mig's comment crew can pony up enough.

my own pref is for 12 games plus scheduled tie-breaks (rapid/blitz display if not needed) over 3 weeks, 50-25K+ prizes, more gala style. big idea is to try to make a docu about it, with heavy on the psychology angle for outside chess interest, and sell to discovery channel et al.

Very nice classical one sided crush.

[White "Kamsky, Gata"]
[Black "Christiansen, Larry"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Bc5 4. O-O Nd4 5. Ba4 Nxf3+ 6. Qxf3 Ne7 7. Qc3 Bd4
8. Qg3 Ng6 9. c3 Bb6 10. d4 O-O 11. f4 exf4 12. Bxf4 Nxf4 13. Qxf4 d6 14. Nd2
Be6 15. Kh1 c6 16. Nf3 h6 17. Bc2 Qd7 18. e5 dxe5 19. Nxe5 Qd6 20. Qg3 f5 21.
Rae1 Bc7 22. Qh3 f4 23. Qd3 Bf5 24. Bb3+ Kh7 25. Qd2 g5 26. g4 Bc8 27. Qd3+ Kg7
28. Bc2 Rh8 29. Ng6 Bxg4 30. Re7+ Kf6 31. Rxc7 Rhg8 32. Ne5 1-0

@Very nice classical one sided crush.

with some help from Larry who delayed too much the equalzing strike in the center

16. Nf3 h6 ?
16 ..d5! = (17.e5 f6 !)

Sure, at least one bad mistake has to occur to get such a crushing. I'm quite glad he didn't equalize!! Thanks for analysis.

I doubt if anyone got this one right.

I noticed Nakamura blitzing Shulman, i.e. not recording his own move before moving again. With ten moves to go, and Shulman being down to 2 minutes versus ~50. That would not be permitted in FIDe tournaments, but USCF rules differ slightly. Perhaps also on this point?

I am somewhere in between, neither praising Nakamura into heaven nor questioning that he is part of the extended world elite (top 20 or top 30, but not yet stable top 10). He climbed on the live rating list by beating Stripunsky (2570) and Hess (2590), at the same time Ivanchuk lost some live rating points and fell behind him because he "Astrakhant".
***
Just another example of how useless live minute by minute ratings can be

If I'm reading the pairings for the 7th round correctly: Shulman/Onischuk have every reason for a quick draw to guarantee themselves a spot in the final, and the same goes for Kamsky (though he might want to find a line to press gently with white with minimal risk). After an hour we could have two draws there, turning Christiansen-Nakamura into a ferocious Armageddon match! Pre-tournament favorite Naka would have black and draw odds, LarryC would get to attack to his heart's content! What's the line - 25% chance that Naka finishes out of the final four?!

Andrew, note that although the ratings would say it's unlikely, I'm certain that Shabalov is going to go all out to beat Kamsky tomorrow with the black pieces. A Herculean task no doubt, but if anyone is going to try it's going to be Shabalov. I was told that when he found out that he was the one playing Kamsky, he became noticeably excited. Probably this is because now he is the one out of the 3.5/6's controlling his destiny, instead of leaving it to another less ambitious player to somehow find a way to beat Gata with black.

In any case we will see what happens, should be exciting.

While Onishuk and Shulman might be able to assure themselves of qualifying with a quick draw, while both Kamsky and Nakamura will each have to face a ferocious attacker out for blood, in the end it might help Kamsky and Nakamura if they survive the onslaught as they will definitely have a chance to win and move a half point over Shulman and Onishuk, which might make all the difference given that if Onishuk and Shulman do indeed draw while Kamsky and Nakamura do manage to advance that the top 4 will have drawn all of their games against each other this tournament and thus might be likely to do so again in the quad finals.

Hi Greg! I'd love your opinion on this. Although I'm almost 48 and the great Yasser Seirawan won the silver medal on board 2, after the disastrous 41rst place finish at Bled in 2002 I'd hate to see anyone older than Kamsky ever play for the US Olympiad team again. It's a marathon, not a sprint. What do you think?

Nakamura is tied for 18th in the world and 8 points ahead of the next player in the regular ratings.

I wonder if Zatonskih was invited. She's tougher than Altounian.

Round 7 at US Chess Championships and no video (again). Disappointing. So much for superior internet technology in the U.S. vs Europe.....

I like Larry's position a lot after 17.b4. It doesn't look to me that black has enough play on the white squares to offset the value of white's Knight. But then again, I may be missing a line engines find in seconds...

The great international elite star nakamura brilliantly holds a draw against the old drunk Christianson, please put him in as a wild card into the WC as he so much deserves it with ALL his outstanding results.

Go troll elsewhere, you're boring us.

Anyone got any insight into this Rxd5 winner LarryC supposedly missed? I couldn't work it out any more than Maurice A and Jen S could.

Do all Americans pronounce Maurice Morreece instead of the UK Morris, by the way, or is this peculiar to MA?

jcm

Onischuk fan: Don't know about Zatonskih, but Altounian wasn't invited; he qualified by winning the State Champions of Champions tournament.

The idea is straightforward when you see it.

1.Rxd5 Bxe2 2. Rd7 Qc4 (2...Qc5 allows 3.Rxe6 followed by Rxg6 and Rxd4) 3.Qe5 and black is completely tied up.

@2...Qc5 allows 3.Rxe6

2..Qc5 "allows" 3.Q:c5 R:c5 4.Rb8+ and mate

quite strange combination, counter-intuitive, very much computer like, it is difficult to believe that there is no defense in that position

2..Qc4 3.Qe5 Bd3 4.Rbb7 overpowering the Rg6 defense of the g7 square , and 4..Q:c3 to defend it indirectly runs into the same back rank mate after 5.Q:c3 R:c3 6.Rd8#

It's funny you say that the combination is computer-like given that the engines I have (stockfish, hiarcs, deep shredder) don't even consider Rxd5 as one of the top moves until after the move is made. The engines were basically saying that the best move was something like Ng3 wth a small edge for white and after I fed them Rxd5 they jump up to +2 for white.

I tested what you said and even Fritz 5.32 (!), running on 2.5GHz, has it as the first choice in 10 seconds...

Very interesting... I wonder why the engines I have all have that blindspot...

Obviously your engines are Naka fanboys.

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